Uncovering the Hidden Path to the Boardroom: Strategies for Women with Dr. Keith D. Dorsey

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Welcome to the A World of Difference podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown and this is a podcast for those who are different and want to make a difference.

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Welcome back to A World of Difference, where we celebrate the power of distinct perspectives to transform leadership, work and society. Today's episode is a masterclass and what it really takes to to lead from the boardroom in today's very complex world of geopolitical shifts, tariffs and many other poly crises unfolding before corporate board's eyes. I'm joined by Dr. Keith D. Dorsey, seasoned board director, executive advisor and the author of a new release book, the Boardroom Journey.

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If you've ever wondered how to get a seat at the table or how to lead with both courage and strategy once you're there, this conversation is for you. From rethinking how boards engage with workforce leadership to developing moral and intellectual courage in that talent management area, Dr. Dorsey challenges the status quo with practical insight and deep experience. Whether you're a rising executive, a seasoned leader, or someone looking to create lasting impact, you will not want to miss this episode. Let's dive in all together with Dr.

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Dr. Keith D. Dorsey.

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Hi Keith. And a very warm welcome to A World of Difference podcast today. It's great to be here. I'm really excited for this conversation. Enjoy getting to know you and reading your writing.

00:01:40
This conversation is really going to be very special for those who may have not considered some opportunities around board service for women in particular, which is something your latest book is about. You've had a remarkable journey from executive search to board service and thought leadership leadership. I'd be really curious for you just really here out of the gate to let us know what inspired you to focus your career on empowering others to access boardrooms. You know, I, I tell people, Lori, that this has been a serendipitous journey, you know, and that this is my third chapter. The first being the US Military and Air Force for a number of years and then just over 29 years in corporate America leading very large sales teams for first the Fortune 1000 for about 17 years and the Fortune 500 for about 12 years.

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In doing so develops, you know, interesting human capital around strategic growth, around turnarounds, being a turnaround specialist. And when I entered this third chapter in January of 2019, I wanted to focus my portfolio career on helping others. And that was really around doing executive advisory work, paying things forward and taking my human capital and really helping others see what may be around the corner and helping them go from here to there. And then I also got involved in corporate boards and board work, period. And to the point now I serve on two private company boards, one municipality, one university and one nonprofit.

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And I also at that point was tapped on the shoulder by a global executive search firm after I completed my doctorate at USC in organizational change and leadership, where all my research was around the lack of gender and ethnic diversity on corporate boards. Board diversity. And I got tapped on the shoulder by a global executive search firm to say, Keith, with your 30 years of strategic growth experience, coupled with all your academic research around corporate board refreshment and corporate board diversity, we think you would be excellent in executive search. And that's how I ended up going down that path in what was supposed to be my semi retirement, but not so much. And it was during my dissertation writing that I actually got started with and kind of in a serendipitous way found myself very, very interested in corporate board refreshment and corporate board diversity.

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And hence my writing and all of my activity and passion has been around that for the past almost seven years now. Well, I am so excited for the rest of this conversation today because we have so much alignment around this, as you know. I would love for you to speak a little bit to why it's so dangerous for a corporate board to get into groupthink. Why is that risky for business? Why is cognitive diversity so important in these really crucial decision making moments that we're facing right now with tariffs and talent management and future of work and AI and all these things that are geopolitical events that are really corporate boards are facing?

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Why is eliminating group think and really eliminating the risk or risk management by having cognitive diversity so important? Great question, Lori. And I don't think any board is interested in groupthink. I think it ends up becoming an unintended consequence from some of the decisions that they previously made. And boards oftentimes, if you really look at the history of boards, they oftentimes create a board by figuring out who do I know who can be excellent and really help me govern this organization.

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That's what founders and CEOs would actually do. And they would pull out their Rolodex, if you will, and, and start to think about the people they know. And the people they know are people that they've worked with in the past, people that are members of their social clubs, their athletic clubs, different things like that, and reaching out to this group of people that they knew and trust. You often end up growing up in the same sort of neighborhoods, going to the same sort of schools, fraternity and sororities. And you think more alike than you thought, you know, originally thought.

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And the makeup of the board members. For a while, there were former and active CEOs and former or active CFOs, and that group of people still oftentimes thought. So the unintended consequence of surrounding yourself with your social capital, your network of people that you know and trust enough, you end up getting this group of people that maybe think more alike than they knew. Because of that, the beauty of cognitive diversity or diversity of thought is beginning to bring in people that may not look like you may not have gone to the same schools as you may not have grown up in the same neighborhoods of. You may not be the same age as you.

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And now they're. They. You can mitigate risk so much better and you can disrupt so much better because you're bringing in thoughts that came from areas that you've never considered before. And because of their mental models and their cultural capital that they bring to the table, they will ask different questions. And they could be a person of a different gender, ethnicity, a person of a different age, and someone that grew up on a farm versus someone that grew up in the inner city, someone that went to a private school, public school, or a state school, many different ways and walks of life.

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And then you get geographic areas. You know, you have some organizations that may have started in Silicon Valley, but they want to be global. And everyone grew up in Palo Alto. But yet you want to be a global organization. Wouldn't it be nice to have people from around the world, from Singapore, from London, from Paris, from Africa, you know, to actually on your board?

00:07:46
Because those are the areas you ultimately would like to go into at some point. That's how you begin to bring in that diversity of thought. And I guess the consequence to that is things won't move as quickly as you want. Because when you bring in that sort of, I call it optimal diversity. Optimal diversity is taking demographic and observable diversity coupled with diversity of thought, intentionally seeking that diversity of thought.

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Those, those two together, the demographic and diversity of thought equals optimal diversity. And when you focus on optimal diversity, you. You begin to fish where the fish are to challenge these assumptions. And once again, the consequence to that is your meeting might not go as quickly as you thought. When you unintentionally have group think, people say, yeah, that makes sense to me.

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Let's move forward and go that direction. And when you have diversity of thought in, and that cultural diversity that we talked about, they will ask different questions and it'll make you think at times and I tell people the non verbal you want in that room from time to time for people to say, huh, I never thought about it that way before. And just by asking a question that someone never thought about before, change ensues and that's what we want in the boardroom. But you may not move as quickly as you once did before and that could be considered a negative consequence. Oh absolutely.

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You know, observed this again and again. I spent all day in fact actually yesterday in Palo Alto at all day conference for this alley to valley with a bunch of women who are powerhouse women. Many of them are on corporate boards, some of them are looking for a corporate board seat or they're, you know, startups, they're part of venture capital. There's a lot of movers and shakers in Silicon Valley. But even in a room full of women and all the diversity of those different types of women, you realize that we want more cognitive diversity and not less even in a room like that.

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Because there is a blue ocean out there that we may not have considered. If somebody doesn't ask that question, like you mentioned, maybe it's somebody who grew up in Singapore or London, as you mentioned, or has bought that kind of product that our company sells but from a different company and they understand the market in Southeast Asia in a different way. For example, it's so good for business when we can get out of that group think and really see the opportunities out there through asking these developmental questions that lead to open ended answers instead of a yes or no or right or wrong. I'd love to talk a bit about your book, which is very exciting. It's just releasing and you're talking about the boardroom journey, specifically how to help women get on boards.

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And I'd love to know your book is already helping professionals envision their board path. What motivated you to write about this specifically and who were you hoping to reach with your book? There's this myth that's out there that we would love to have more women on boards, but there just aren't enough qualified women out there. And that's absolutely ridiculous. And the way that I come from professional search and you know, at least over the last few years and one of the things that I uncovered is in search we have people that we have gotten to know over a period of time and when something comes up that jars our memory about individual, we'll reach out to them.

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And oftentimes search professionals have a small group of people that they oftentimes reach out to. And so if a board said we are looking for a woman with this sort of background, we can immediately go to them. And unfortunately, the recycle rate on those women in our networks could be very high. And what I mean by the recycle rate, they would keep going to the same 100 women offering them a board role or opportunity to interview for a board role. And these women are now boarded up.

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So we had the best intentions to try to help that board find a woman. But we go to our network of these 100 women and they all say, you know, I'm already serve on four boards, I can't serve on a fifth. And then we, because of speed is important in this search process. We go back to the board and say, you know what, we're tapped out. We can't find a woman for this opportunity.

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Would you consider a Hispanic male or would you consider this? And you know, and that's fine. It's just their initial request may have been a woman. And that's where we have to teach people to fish where the fish are and not just go to your immediate network. And the challenge, even professional search firms, if they come back and say we can't find one, said, then maybe we should work with another search firm this time that may have a different network than yours.

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And I bet that professional search firm will say, no, time out, we will find you something, someone. But if you make it easy for them to say we can't find one, would you consider something else? And if you accept that you're. You didn't stress the system enough to find what you initially were seeking. So I wanted to one, teach these incredible women that are exceptional executives and exactly what boards, who boards will need to market themselves a little differently.

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We use the word networking at these events. It's, you know, squeezing palms and kissing babies, giving out business cards and different things like that. And we just automatically assume that's what networking is about. And I, in the book, I've had the opportunity to do so much research, research and qualitative interviews, both formal and informal interviews with hundreds of women executives and government officials who found their way on corporate boards to learn what were their enablers, what were their barriers, what was their human capital, social capital, cultural capital like. And I was able to find themes in how they found their way on corporate boards.

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And when they talk about networking, networking for them might have been just letting anyone and everyone know that you would like to be on a corporate board. And by telling anyone and everyone and not just other board members, members in this insular environment and not just other CEOs in this insular environment, but the janitor in your office building, your dog walker, your babysitter, everyone. Because you would be surprised how many women end up getting on a corporate board because they told someone just in conversation that they're interested, that they already serve in on this nonprofit board and they're interested in a corporate board. And whether it's weeks or years later, that person recommended them for a board. And so I wanted to teach these, I wanted to teach women executives and career women what they needed to do to land and board position and network themselves a little differently.

00:14:58
Another example, Lori, is I talk about from a networking standpoint, this one of my research studies, something came from out of it which was this saying that we all grew up on is not what you know, it's who you know. And that's how you get on, you know, promoted, that's how you find a new job and that's how you actually get on boards. Because the networking side of getting on boards is very, very high versus from a search professional. And, and so people typically stop there. Well, I wanted to studies that I did, it went even further and I've shared this numerous places, but it still is aha for people.

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And I want to continue to share this. It's not what you know, it's not who you know, it's who knows you. When it comes to corporate boards. And because of this pre vetting that goes on either with the search firm or with the nominations and governance committee, by the time a search professional reaches out to an individual or a board itself reaches out to an individual, you've been pre vetted and because of services like LinkedIn, we can easily find someone that we have in common that we can ask them questions and if they have favorable things to say about you, we will actually get in contact with you. If they have unfavorable things to say about you, you won't hear from us at all.

00:16:19
You wouldn't even know that this board position was available. But when it comes to it's not what you know, it's not who you know, it's who knows you. There are people that are recommending you for board positions without your knowledge. And the example that I often give people is if you're sitting on a panel for one hour on stage and you look in this audience, there are a thousand people in the audience and you happen to scan the audience and you notice that you know about 30 people out there, there, if we stuck with the original saying, hey, it's not what you know, it's who you know. You know 30 people.

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But by the time you are done with that panel, there are 970 more people that know you that you may never get to know. And it just takes a few people in that audience to say, I like what Lori had to say about that. I love the way Lori thinks. And now I'm in this meeting, this board meeting, and we're talking about secession planning for board members. And the question we always ask in board meetings when we're talking about replacing someone or adding another board position is, who do you know?

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And that person that heard you on the panel says, I think Lori is someone we should reach out to. And then the nominations and governance committee will start to reach out to people that they know that knows Lori in this example, and ask, you know, what can you tell me about Lori? And will it be the same that the person on the board said about Lori? And if they have favorable things to say, that's great. Or they'll reach out to a search firm and say, I want you to do some pre vetting on Lori.

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I heard great things about her, but I want to know what else you could find out and should we consider Lori for our board? People don't realize that's networking. Writing an article and having an article go out to thousands of people who you would never meet, and they hear the way you think and they see you're a subject matter expert and they see your. Your business, they can pick up your business acumen and that you're a corporate athlete from that article. They're talking about you without your knowledge and you never met them.

00:18:27
That's the beauty of networking. And those are the sort of things that you, you would get in the Boardroom Journey book that really aren't so. Keith, what you're saying, it really resonates. You're talking about visibility is such a huge part of this. Are you seen as a thought leader?

00:18:44
I'm curious to know, in your research and as you were writing this, how did you see the differences between men and women being seen as thought leaders? When you know, is there still a huge difference from when a man walks in the room being seen as credible and being seen as a potential and the difference between maybe a woman having to prove herself or maybe being overly questioned in the beginning because of the narratives our society feeds us about the differences between men and women? It's a great question, Lori. There's some unconscious bias that still sick. You know, that's still out there.

00:19:18
I don't think there's Any as much malicious behavior as maybe in the 50s or whatever the case may be in the 1950s. But there is still some unconscious bias. You know, I speak around the world and one of the examples that I give is when people sometimes walk on an airplane and you look as you're walking on the plane, you look to the left in the cockpit. And unfortunately there are some people that say when they see a woman in the cockpit of that airplane that they are concerned about whether or not they should have their family on that flight because apparently that airline so much about DEI that they have this woman in the cockpit. And I don't understand that line of thinking.

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And I don't know if that's, if they are trying to be cruel or is that some unconscious bias that they just have. Why would you think that if it's not a man and that the company must care about DEI and that person was a DEI hire and you don't know any, anything at all about that woman's credibility and capabilities? I tell people when I talk about this, I said, you don't know if that woman was a retired Navy fighter jet pilot who landed over a thousand sorties on this tiny little aircraft carrier that's bobbling up and down in the ocean. How could you just look to the left and wonder if that person was a DEI hire and is my family going to be safe? So does that happen in society?

00:21:00
Unfortunately, yes. Does that happen in the boardroom? Unfortunately, yes. And it takes incredible board leadership to recognize that the unconscious bias could exist. And there are things that women can do when they are serving on the board to prevent some of that and when it does present its ugly head, do something differently about it.

00:21:25
There are women in my studies that have shared with me, they would make a statement during the board meeting and someone, the chair or someone else will say that, well, that's kind of in the weeds. We need to be high level here in these discussions. And that's very strategic. And then 30 minutes later, a male would make a very similar statement or ask a very similar question and they have a 15 minute discussion on it because they thought that was strategic, but it was the exact same question. And when those things happen, and unfortunately they still do, to be able to have mentors, allies on the board that you can later pull aside and give examples and ask them specifically to watch out for that.

00:22:13
And when you see it, now that you're remember I said by simply by asking the question, change ensues. By having that discussion and asking a fellow board member, did you Notice that change ensues because they'll start to notice it. And when they notice it, you can ask them, can you chime in and say, well that's the same question that Mary just asked and you said that was tactical and, and, or to chime in and say, well, no, was that, is that a tactical question? Let's give Mary the floor a little bit longer. And that's the inclusive side of dei.

00:22:47
And we're really trying in today's culture war to even get away from that acronym because it's easy to hate an acronym and a dislike an acronym. Something was recently put in front of me that really makes you think and they said really try to get away from the acronym DEI and really ask people to spell it out. Diversity, equity and inclusion. And what specifically do you dislike about diversity? What specifically do you dislike about equity?

00:23:18
And what specifically do you dislike about inclusion? And you know, a lot of media and some organizations that are against this diversity, equity and inclusion will teach very briefly and confuse the confused how that, you know, this is how you battle dei. But when you begin to look at diversity, equity and inclusion and their individual components, media and these organizations didn't teach them how to handle the second and third and fourth level questions around that and you could begin to have a really intelligent conversation once you begin to dissect it that way and you find that oftentimes we are, we're on the same page. It's merit has always been a big part of diversity, equity and inclusion. That's table stakes.

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But the way it's being presented today, it's a sucker's choice of you either have diversity or you have meritocracy. And the bottom line is meritocracy and diversity have always coexisted. That is the prerequisite to, to diversity, equity and inclusion. It's a long winded answer, long winded response and a bit of a rang. But I believe that we're not too far apart and we just have to calm down and ask thoughtful questions and really listen to the answers and we'll find out that we aren't that far apart and we can agree on a lot of these things and we, we could begin to address our unconscious biases when it comes to women on corporate boards and in other areas as pilots and so on and so forth.

00:25:07
Well, absolutely. I know our global audience listening to this really resonates with what you're saying. I myself working in a technology manufacturing company based here in Silicon Valley, but an enterprise global company. There are companies where we work where DEI metrics are expected. And so corporate boards have to be are wrestling with this.

00:25:27
You know, some of the regulations that have changed in the United States, some of the wording that has changed. And you know, once again, to me, as somebody who speaks six languages, I'm happy to change wording if it communicates better. But at the end of the day, I think you're right. Most of us share these values because honestly we know it's good for business. The research is very clear for all the same reasons we talked about eliminating groupthink.

00:25:48
And the way you do that is the cognitive diversity right on a board. And so I'm interested though I think really what's behind this is something you've already addressed and something your research talks about, which is there's systemic challenges. So as you know, you know this is one of the focuses of your book is expanding board opportunities for women. So what systemic challenges are you seeing? How can leaders play a role in building even stronger pipelines for board ready women?

00:26:11
I think it comes down to, as I mentioned before, fishing where the fish are finding. Well, one, if you have this prerequisite that the next board member must be a CEO of a Fortune 500. Well, there are only so many women that are CEOs of a Fortune 500. So just by having that prerequisite alone, you're going to narrow your opportunities. And those women are boarded up.

00:26:38
They are serving on as many corporate boards as they possibly can. They're either active CEOs and they can only serve on one or they're recently retired CEOs and they quickly got to their four, you know, boards. So just by changing the prerequisites to serving on a corporate board is a big component of what needs to happen to have. The other thing is women and people of color often think they aren't quite ready. They need just one more thing.

00:27:10
When you talk about meritocracy with these groups, they are often way more qualified than the existing board members that are already serving because of their self talk. And I need just one more certification. I need just one more class, I need this, I need that. And they are already ready. And so to figure that part out, and that takes a bit of reflection.

00:27:34
In the book, I challenge people to look at the existing boards. You can't interview for a board or hunt for a board the way that you would seek a job. You can seek a company and you know you want to work at that company and you can really go out and try to get a role at that company. Board service doesn't work that way. If you know you want to serve on that specific board with that specific, specific company and you eagerly go after them, it's probably not going to work.

00:28:06
But if you know you like that industry and you've done enough reflection to know your value prop that you will bring as a board member to that industry, you can, what I write about in the book is you can begin to look for companies in those industries and find people via LinkedIn that you know, know someone that is on that board and you could set up a 15 minute meet and greet, have them introduce you, set up a 15 minute meet and greet or breakfast, a coffee, a lunch. And in doing that, you can have a conversation with them. Not about getting on their board. That is a no, no, don't do that. Have a conversation with them about asking what are things you did throughout your corporate career that best prepared you for a board seat like the one you're on.

00:28:56
How did you get on this board? And you know, in our society we love to help people, even if it's just giving someone directions to how to get to the next, you know, whatever they were trying to get to the gas station or can you tell me where the Apple store is? I know I'm in the vicinity and people will stop what they were doing and they will help you. People love to help. And so having that fitness 15 minute conversation or a half an hour coffee break with someone and you're asking them great questions, that's how you could begin to get information about the things that people did to get the type of board position that you would like.

00:29:33
And, and, and that's great information because then you could begin to reflect on how many of those things do I presently have? Where do I have gaps? And you may find out you don't have any gaps at all. And then it really comes down to building relationships with people that ultimately might reach out to you at a later date when they're having that conversation. Who do you know?

00:29:55
Well, they got to know you, just not because you asked if you could serve on their board, but because you developed a relationship via your inquiry. And that's how it happens. That's networking in a different way. And that's what I'm referencing throughout the book. And so if it's going to be, it's up to me.

00:30:14
I can't control what all these other organizations are doing, but I can control what I can do differently to get different results. So as a consultant I try to help boards think differently to get to different places. And as an advisor, I try to help executives think differently, to get to a different location and different expectations. All of those things need to happen with boards and with individuals to make, to make a difference. But ultimately what the book is going to try to do is not to get you to change the world, but to get you to change the way you personally are going about this process and holding yourself accountable from a commitment capital standpoint.

00:30:56
Yeah. And what I hear you saying is that difference is, you know, the way you get there is a different path. And this is sort of this hidden thing that if you don't play golf or you know, sometimes that happens on the golf course, for example, which I know that you play golf, which is great. But some, especially women aren't often in those environments, you know, typically speaking. And so it is sort of this hidden path.

00:31:18
And so there are, as you said, many women who are ready and don't know that they're ready often because our society puts that idea in women's heads that women are broken, in need of fixing. Even when it comes to, to. You know, we see this sometimes in the podcasting world, some of the manosphere that's very prominent in the podcasting world. We see it in authorship of books where women might pitch a book that's a leadership book, a business book, and they get sort of put into the self help section. And so some of it is our system.

00:31:49
We all bear responsibility collectively to help this happen better for business. But even we see it in politics. Is that woman ready? She might be more qualified than maybe a man who's running. But our narrative says men are pilots, right?

00:32:03
Men are president, men are on boards. So your book is so helpful. All these conversations are very helpful. I'd love for you just to give some sort of last parting thoughts to our audience. What is some really important wisdom you can impart to someone maybe who's starting their board journey, who sits on a board and has, is on the non gov committee and is looking for another person.

00:32:23
How can you give some advice to help boards and business expand? You know, when it comes to the boards and as a search professional, someone would ask me, can you find us? We need a, we have a ninth opening opening for our ninth board member and can you find me another CEO? And response back to them is, well, you have eight CEOs on your board today. Do you really need a ninth?

00:32:47
And so what I challenge actual boards to do is to do an inventory of their executive existing board members. And most boards will do have what they call a skills matrix and there might be 12 to 14 different functional skills that they're highlighting in that skills matrix. And they check with each board member how many of those 12 or 14 skill sets they actually have. I call that the tip of the iceberg. The 10% that you can see are those 12 or 14 functional skill sets underneath the surface.

00:33:17
90%. That 90% are the competencies of an individual, the behavioral traits and different things like that. And when you begin to look at your board and those competencies as well, you'll find what you want to find out is where do I have a redundancy on my board, these skill sets and competencies, and where do I have gaps? And especially when analyzing the gaps, I want to think about my strategy for the next three to five years and, and what that company is trying to do. And based on that strategy and the competencies and skill sets of my existing board members, where are those gaps?

00:33:51
And you may find those gaps have nothing to do with a very broad CEO and more to do with something around cybersecurity, something around AI, something around supply chains, something around procurement, these other areas of focus. And when you begin, begin to think about where do I need to hunt or fish to fill those gaps, that's when you will run across a cornucopia of women that can actually serve on that board. So that's what I challenge boards to do. I challenge executives to take off their unconsciously competent executive hack when interviewing for a board position position and intentionally put on their consciously competent governance hat. If you go into a board interview as a extremely capable executive and you're answering questions that they're asking you with your autopilot executive hat on when you're done, they're more than likely going to offer you, if they have an opening in their C suite, they're going to offer you a position on their C suite.

00:35:01
Because you interviewed like you were interviewing for a C suite role, that's not the way it works for a board. And so I tell people and challenge people to learn how to intentionally put on a governance hat. And you want to answer the questions and you want to show up in a way that shows your strategic thinking. And our job as board members, independent directors, is to ask thought provoking questions to help uncover things that the C suite may want to think about. And that's almost the way you want to interview.

00:35:33
And so that's my parting suggestion to aspiring board members, is to learn how to take off that autopilot hat being an unconsciously competent executive or government official. And Intentionally put on your governance hat. And I share with people if the interview is going too great. It's feeling really great. It's probably because you're in your sweet spot as an executive or a functional expert and the pull right back up because you're actually nose diving and you're going to crash.

00:36:07
But it's going to feel so great because you were in your comfort zone and in a good board interview you almost want to be comfortable being uncomfortable and pull right back up to show your strategic side of things and what happens there. I would debrief with the candidate after their board interview and they will share with me that that interview was great. They loved me, we had the greatest conversation. And I joke and say, some say, you know, so great if that person's going to have another kid, they're probably going to name that kid after me, you know, and that's how great it was. And then I would debrief with the non gov committee and they would say we see why you put her in front of that person.

00:36:51
It was enjoyable. I enjoyed my conversation with them. And if we were looking for another C fill in the blank, we, we would want that person. But we're looking for a governance person and not someone that's just in this specific silo. We need a corporate athlete that can participate in every conversation but can go deep in this one area when necessary.

00:37:14
But be a really good board member and participate in every conversation. And that's why it's important that when it's feeling too great, you're probably showing your expertise. You want to pull back up and ask a very strategic question so that they can begin to see of a corporate athlete you are and how you will be able to contribute throughout the rest of the of the board meeting. Not just about supply chain, not just about talent, not just about risk management. Because you're a gc.

00:37:42
Yeah, absolutely. This is such great advice. Absolute gold. Honestly, from your perspective, I think that if there's one thing I know about all women it feels like that I have met in all the cultures where I've worked is that women tend to be used to wearing multiple hats. And so I love your analogy of just a different hat.

00:38:00
You're asking thought provoking questions. You're seeing this more in a broader scope. I really think that's just absolutely wonderful advice to offer to our audience who might be out there looking for the first corporate board seat, their second corporate board seat or maybe they're on that non gov committee on a corporate board and figuring out how they can expand beyond just a CEO. Thank you for your time today. It's been so insightful.

00:38:21
We are so excited about your book and hope it gets into the hands. We'll put it in the show notes. Everybody go out and buy it. It's incredible information that you need to get your corporate board seat. I'm going to have you hang out with our difference makers on Patreon for one last question.

00:38:33
But it's been great to have you on the show today, Keith. Thank you Lori. It's been great to be here. Well, I hope this conversation with Dr. Keith D.

00:38:39
Dorsey gave you strategies that you need to move forward in making the difference that you want to make in corporate board seats. Because business is waiting for cognitive diversity to join corporate boards with your experts expertise with your thought provoking questions to help open up opportunities with developmental conversations that are really key right now to global business. I hope this conversation inspired you as much as it inspired me and gave me more insight and tools into somebody who has the experience both as an executive recruiter and as somebody who's been serving on corporate boards himself as well as a doctorate in this area with lots of research. And I do hope that you will buy his book about the boardroom journey. We will link it in the show notes Notes his call for courageous, strategic and people centered leadership in the boardroom is something we can all take to heart, whether we lead teams or companies or movements.

00:39:35
If this episode sparked ideas or spurred you on in some particular way, maybe gave you that fire inside you to do something action oriented, I would love to hear about it. If it gave you ideas that helped you think differently about leadership, I'd love for you to share this episode with five people in your network that you think could really benefit and start that conversation. Maybe their colleagues, mentors, your own boss at work, somebody that has been your executive coach for a while, anyone, anybody that you know who's ready to take their leadership to the next level as a way of saying let's have this conversation together. That's what these episodes are for. Conversation starters we just give you a person who comes with their expertise and they get the ball rolling for you and those in your network that you want to speak about these conversations with as you bring differences around the table and with each other and make a difference together in each other's lives.

00:40:27
And certainly so many of these strategies he shared with us today are going to make a difference in how you show up to get that corporate board seat or to recommend somebody you know that you believe is ready. Or maybe you sit on a non gov committee and this has opened your eyes about the need to bring in more than just CEOs into the perspective that is needed in business right now. I really hope that you took his strategies and his expertise really absorbed it in a porous way and that will help you with a growth mindset to understand there is so much more out there that we can do to help our businesses grow and make the world a better place. Be sure to rate and review the podcast. Your feedback really helps us to reach more difference makers just like you.

00:41:09
So don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. I do not want you to miss next week's episode where we'll continue to explore bold leadership and what it takes to to build workplaces and a world where everyone can thrive and flourish together. Until next time, keep leaning into your difference if it's what makes you a leader worth following. Before we go, I just want to take a moment to thank you. Yes, you.

00:41:33
The fact that you're here tuning in, leaning into these conversations and doing the hard and beautiful work of making a difference in this world. It means everything to me in this episode. If it spoke to you, if it brought you healing, hope, or even just a new perspective, I'd love for you to help us spread the word. Subscribe to the podcast, leave us a review and share this episode with someone you think might need to hear it. Your support helps this community grow and also helps us to keep having these important conversations.

00:42:06
You are such a vital part of this journey and every time you listen, every time you share, you remind me of why we do this. Because you are out there making a difference in your own beautiful, messy and imperfect way. And that that matters more than you know. So thank you for being here, thank you for showing up, and thank you for making the world a little brighter, a little kinder, and a little more whole. Until next time, take care of yourself and keep making a difference.

00:42:37
You are loved all right, listen up because this can change your life. If you've been feeling overwhelmed, stuck, or just not yourself lately, I need you to hear this. You don't have to go through it alone. Life is hard. Career pivots, relationships, stress, big decisions.

00:42:55
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00:43:50
Hey friend, let's talk. If you've been feeling stuck, uninspired or just plain over it in your career, this is your wake up call. It's time to stop waiting for that right moment. Making moves because no one is coming to rescue you. If you want to check out the Mastering the Career Pivot.

00:44:08
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00:44:25
One hour of video training with me breaking down the exact steps you need to take. One hour or maybe two hours depending on your process of self paced exercises to map out your career Pivot plan. A free career Pivot guide to walk you through the process. A clear, actionable roadmap so you can stop second guessing and start making moves. And if you want to go even deeper, you can grab the Pivot Package.

00:44:46
A powerful set of tools including a detailed workbook and three must have spreadsheets to track your job search, networking and applications like a pro. And let me just say, if you're going out there expecting to just apply for a job, the first job and get it, maybe you're one of those people and maybe you do. But if you're like most of the rest of us, you get a job based on people you know. And statistically speaking that's true as well as in my own lived experience and career journey. So networking is really a huge part of it, but a lot of us don't know how and so a spreadsheet where you can track that, break it down, figure out what to talk about, that I have some sample interview questions or you can do informational interviews.

00:45:22
There's so much there in the Pivot package that is part of my own journey that helped me when I did a career pivot several years ago. So here's the deal. This course will save you hours of frustration, second guessing, and aimless scrolling on job boards. Not helpful. You don't have time to waste and your future is waiting.

00:45:37
So let's get after it. Go to Loriadamsbrown.com careerpivot and sign up for Mastering the Career Pivot today. Because your next chapter, it's not going to write itself.