Songwriting As Self-Expression: Shannan Copland's Journey From Self-Doubt To Embracing Her Voice

0:00 Welcome to the A World of Difference podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown and this is a podcast for those who are different and want to make a difference. Today we have a musician on the show, a singer songwriter and a friend of mine, Shannan Copland is coming on the show. She's been releasing some new music lately and she is about to release a new song called Enough on April 12. She's coming on the show today to talk about the this song, other songs she's going to be releasing out in the future and ones she's already released. Copland is an indie pop music artist based in Portland Oregon Born and raised here in California where I live she studied music at an early age with a love for piano and voice she involved herself in any musical opportunity that was afforded to her Her passion for songwriting ignited around age twelve and she's used it as an outlet to express her artistry ever since Over the years Shannon has worked with talented musicians vocalists and teachers from around the United States also in Portugal Norway Italy and more And she had the honor of being the only vocal student of norwegian pop celebrity train train and to this day train has been one of her most inspiring and influential mentors.Shannon is going to release her first debut single or already or released her first debut single it's like in March this year and once again a new one coming called Enough on April 12 which she has graciously allowed me to have a preview too And her song it's like that was released in March

1:32 It's fun relatable inspiring love song with a catchy a that might take you back to I don't know the breakfast club for a second But her new one enough is about Just what it sounds like that you are enough.And it's just absolutely the message we want to amplify out to the world here on the oh world of difference podcast that you bring your voice to the table fully the who you are And this song is all about that So excited to welcome to the show to Shannan Copland.Hello Shannon It's so great to see you my friend up in Portland Welcome A very very warm welcome to the A world of difference podcast today.Thank you so much It's Thank privilege to get to be On this podcast with you Well it's so fun for me when I get to interview friends that I've known for years We met here in the Bay area but now you're up in Portland and we've visited each other.I've visited you with my family up there too which is so fun But today we're going to talk about you and I get to interview you, and learn all about the difference you're making in the world And I'm so excited to do that And my first sort of question for you right off the bat which I know but I'd love for my listeners To know more about you are kind.Of what are the places and cultures that have shaped you throughout your life That have made Shannon who your are Oh my gosh That is a loaded question Oh man.Well Shannon me Well I've been I've lived a lot of

3:05 places like you have I grew up in the Bay Area in California but from there I lived on the east coast and then in college years and beginning of our marriage for a really good chunk of time we lived a We spent some time in Portugal and Italy and Canada and a lot of different places And my and a I really love traveling.I love traveling all my life And we love the perspective that we get from immersing ourselves in the cultures And learning their worldviews and heLoring people's Stories because I feel it feel like that really challenges our own thinking of what we think of ourselves and how we can achieve things too And so yeah we love traveling.So I've been a lot of places Yes you've lived a lot of cool places and traveled a lot of cool places I mean Italy is on a lot of people's destination of favorite places they've been or bucket list of places they want to go.Yeah exactly And you're a woman yourself and that Has really played into your music You're raising girls and you're sort of processing that through your lyrics which is so beautiful And I just kind of wanted to.Know because I know people listening whether They'Re a woman or a girl or A man

4:36 or a young boy who struggled with people's expectations Did that ever play into your story of kind of trying to meet up to the expectations people had of you And sort of what did you struggle with around that Oh absolutely Yeah I grew up in a strong religious evangelical background and there are a lot of expectations a are put on us I mean even if you're not if You don't have religious background it could be in the workplace or your family or your school.But for me there were I had parents in leadership in the church world And so I grew up kind of like living in a glass box So everyone's eyes are on on me and my family a what we're doing And is everything that we do does that measure up to what this christian Or this person is supposed to be And there's a lot of pressure with that and it's hard especially when you're In your adolescent years and you're trying to figure out who you are and what your purpose is when you're being thrown all these different expectations And yeah it's hard to sort

6:07 through that so It is Yeah.Lot to be said with that No my gosh there's like we could do a whole entire series on that. itself And I know whether people are listening from a christian background or from a muslim background or a jewish background or are currently in those religious environments a religious environment there a a lot of rules and expectations and we do have people listening that are in the evangelical community here in the US or abroad or listening the ex vangelical community as well And so some of those rules just feel kind of arbitrary Like where did they even get that And why are there so many And why are there more now than there were last year And you never feel like you quite measure up right It's like okay why does the goalpost keep moving You know But as a As a mom Yeah as a mom raising daughters like ooh the world is hard on women and girls We just finished women's history month and I don't know why we just get one month I mean we should at least get sex right now or like rbg.When they asked her about how many supreme court justices would we have in order for us to know we've reached equality And she's like when there are in right Because it's been tipped the other way for so long But as are mom you're really thinking of your daughters right as you're writing a lot of your music And so I guess like you know.What hope do you a for your potential You know future granddaughters or great granddaughters As they you know hear your lyrics What are

7:38 you hoping they will come Out of it with Yeah I just As I was writing this song it started actually in a completely different direction I was just writing down the lyrics thinking through some things that were coming to my mind And it started more off as like A lament of reflection of the past.And just feeling bound by expectations and rules But But a lot of that is perspective too right Like how much of the rules that I believed in were actually put on me as opposed to what I believed.Was being put on me And so anyway the song was a Little bit kind of complaining reflective and I was like wait a second if I'm experiencing this I know so many other people are experiencing this too.And I know my girls will experience this So instead of complaining about it and lamenting about it I want to make This song something that they can do something with Like what do I want my girl singing When it comes to the pressures of.Feeling like you're enough or that you Are worth it and that you measure up And so that's really what birthed this song is The lyrics The chorus just really drives it home.And it repeats because we kind of need that We need that repetition feeding back into our soul like you're enough The world may think otherwise of you but it doesn't matter Their opinions do not

9:09 change our worth And to stand in that worth.And so that's really that's really what I want my girls to be singing back It's like I am enough I am enough So good I mean there's what. least in the.US context I've seen some pretty interesting Research on what is shameful to men Versus women boys versus girls Actually Brene Brown does a lot of research around She's a shame researcher and talks shameful lot about vulnerability and you know typically very stereotypically and this is not everyone but generally speaking you have messages toward men a boys that the worst thing that could be the most shameful thing they could be is weak versus strong.And then for men and girls it's Often that you're not perfect You didn't follow every rule and do It every whatever your subculture looks like You know if you're in school it's education and if it's like you're in.A religious environment it's the religion and The rules of the religion Like you know how do you dress You know purity culture obviously plays a lot into this with Christianity but also with Islam and even with Judaism a bit And so you know as we think.About this and a makes that shame of not being perfect is something that Really we have to work as women And girls and we also need male allies to help us with this too Strong fathers that raise strong daughters and you know it's okay to fail

10:39 and it's okay to make mistakes Did any of this help you find your own voice in the process And how does getting comfortable with your Own voice help you make mistakes. difference in this way Oh absolutely I think understanding that your value is not based on external things like someone's Opinions or the world's expectations.When you understand that you're worth it and that you are valuable then you like for me I felt liberated Like when I really like believe that Within my heart that okay my worth isn't depend on their opinions Forget them Like you feel liberated even to have weaknesses because those weaknesses aren't what define you either.And so that's just the profoundness of it And when you feel liberated to make Mistakes and to just be who you Are and to stand in that then you feel more liberated to make a difference in the world around you you just You have more happiness at least for me.I just have a lot more happiness Knowing that my worth isn't ping ponged By if I'm perfect enough or if I'm prettier enough or if I'm good enough at this or a Yeah Well I think in the music industry we've seen you know we've watched

12:11 women rise.You know we recently have Beyonce coming out and changing the music industry around country music with cowboy Carter and we also saw a lot of the scrutiny around Taylor Swift once she started her rise toward becoming and billionaire Like the And you know both of those women and others in the music industry have really highlighted how women and girls do get scrutinized in toward different a because Of the. narratives were told and the Way the system has worked for so long and really silenced women in certain ways or tried to make them small.And I know art is one of The most beautiful ways to express those feelings in its vLorious forms music included But to write something so vulnerable and so difficult has a lot of internal and external barriers that you have to overcome As a singer songwriter what are some of the barriers that you've had to Overcome to write these songs Oh so many Like I have to feed this song Back to myself a Like almost every time I make a post on social media we're always wondering you know like oh is this picture I that to stupid Or is this caption okay okay I'm gonna run it through jet a GPT and figure out a better way to say this Or are my hashtags right Or like there are just so many Things that are fed to us constantly where I don't Don't know if you're.If you're good enough or not And so

13:42 I constantly have to feed This song back to myself and be like okay don't worry about it Their opinions don't matter to see who You are because this is who I.Am and it's not going to change So just live your authentic self and forget the image management Yeah So yeah so good And I think that we long in.Our generation maybe even more so because of how much image management is out there both in religious contexts as well as you know government and business and Even the music industry or you know just your average you know 1213 year old girl looking at Snapchat or whatever And in herself to every other girl In the world not just her class You know there was a time when I was growing up in the eighties.And nineties where you just compared yourself To the 15 other kids in your class you know which in Venezuela was a high bar I'm just going to say one of my classmates it was Miss Venezuela and she's gorgeous you know but yeah but now it's just it's so much pressure And we're seeing major a health issues that are causing all of us concern Right.Because of it But you know when we think about The different cultures of the world the standards of beauty or the rules for women and girls are different in every

15:13 culture So was there anything about your experience abroad maybe in Italy or anywhere else that sort of shed a light for you and relativized some of this as you were finding your own voice and kind of figuring out how your own Light was going to shine Oh there were some moments when we lived in Italy where I definitely had a few aha Moments that were they shed light on the perspective and the beliefs of how I was raised and how I grew up and they kind of changed the Way I think about them now So for example growing up they way that I did the topic of modesty is very different.And in Italy there is a different Kind of I don't know this is how I experienced it as myself But they view modesty differently And in America there's extreme pressures of oh cover is up or don't cover it up It depends on you know where you.Grew up and all that But I guess what I'm trying to Say is modesty is one of there's One of the perspectives that changed And I saw women who were confident.In themselves and not shamed not body Shamed like we we tend to do And that was really special to me because.I don't

16:44 know physical appearance is Something that is that the forefront I think a lot of times of beliefs About yourself and measuring up and things because it's external and it's what people see And so feeling in Italy like with That change of perspective oh you know at It really kind of doesn't matter as much as I think it does People really don't care as much as we think they do about how much Skin you're showing or how much skin you're not showing it really doesn't affect People kind the same way Your culture also the way you're brought up with your culture makes a difference in that also.So that's one example No it's great I think that's a common example because When it comes to things like modesty Or we mentioned earlier purity culture that some people were raised in which you.Know is a a conversation in the Evangelical community or evangelical community here in the United States it also has because. lot of different nuance even in the US depending mentioned whether you're white evangelical Or black evangelical or latino or asian American all those different communities view that differently.And then you know I

18:14 think for Both of us our experiences are on The world of what it meant to be modest Generally speaking in that country or with the subcultures of the different religions I probably couldn't have lived in more extreme places I grew up think Venezuela which is very like even the christian community I grew up in like they were being modest for.And I use the or modesty about clothing Modesty also you know and certain nuances Of the word could be how much you flaunt your money So that's another element that's also not always brought into it and seems to be more of the origins at least in terms of how the scriptures and kind of impact that But like the I lived under shLoria law in Sumatra where I had to wear a hijab and couldn't have nail polish.And you know all of that is wild You know there was no even physical contact between men and women You know if you had to greet someone as sharia woman you could shake Her hand but as a man to a woman's you know you often wouldn't even touch hands And even with my own husband in public right So what's considered modest even within certain religions has nuance even within Islam or a Judaism all over the world And so it makes that moving a if you moving countries extremely difficult because like well here it's not like that And like you're showing your hair here and you're not showing your hair here And so it makes so much It can be kind of victim blaming for women.Like well you were asking for it

19:46 if you did this type of thing And so all the more reason we Need songs we need songwriters like you We need artists to help us express these deep feelings that have been embodied for so many women. and girls where you can just see women carrying it almost physically in themselves So as you were writing this you know sort of just.You described a little bit of your process for writing the song enough But I know you have other so That have recently come out It's like in other ones And so how does enough fit into.The larger narrative or themes of you music in general I think enough is one of the Main anthems of my music.I love encouraging people I love inspiring them I love it when people achieve their goals and they try really hard for something But I also am a really deep thinker Can sometimes be an in but I a deep thinker.I really like reflection and self reflection And so a lot of my songs are along those themes of it I just want my listeners to be inspired encouraged or to really challenge their Thinking on a topics or maybe present A perspective of a particular topic they may not have thought about.So I have a few songs coming out that are I'm really excited about One of them has a really fun beat I'm gonna release that in the

21:17 summertime And there are other on that are super reflective like for mother's Day I'm gonna be releasing.Sing may song around then and it will probably a most moms coming a puddle of tears Okay get your kleenexes ready everybody As I wrote that one I'm couldn't Oh my gosh I couldn't stop crying.And I just actually got it back from my producer yesterday and I'm was just releasing. tears a I let my daughter my older daughter listen to it and she was in tears. too and so touching So um So a lot of emotional songs coming Too but enough is for me it's The one that I'm most proud of.Right now because it's It's kind of like that in anthem Like I want There aren't a lot of songs out there that That kind of feed into your so necessLorily that are.That are empowering that are encouraging And I want people to after they hear this song just to feel liberated And feel that they're worthy and that They can just go out and face Whatever challenges they have a in their own skin and be confident kind that.No it's so true I agree I got to this point in my life after having worked in a toxic work environment and sort of walking through that in therapy over they're last

22:49 three years or so That year I have playlists on Spotify One's called hype woman ones like women's empowerment.I mean it's in of like I Just sometimes on my commute to work Here point Silicon Valley it's like I Just need to remind myself that you know I'm enough Women around me are enough and women.Supporting women is one of my favorite things And I on know I just I heard recently Michelle Obama has There was this video where she was Talking about um women and just the.Sisterhood and she's like we don't have room for mean girls Like we don't have the luxury of TeLoring each other down because so much tears women and girls down We We need to support one another.And I so grateful in my network Of women that so many of them Support each other both in the podcasting industry and professionally and business and tech Where I work and you know other Ways I find it such a fulfilling space because the world does want to tear us down.And so songs like that are so important So if you're getting added to my hype woman playlist just.That's right Just fair warning it's each explicit playlist There are some songs in there that will raise your eyebrows and maybe aren't for the little ones but that's right Some a you just need it to be you know tear little more explicit and it's just me in the car so you know we're good But I would love to know are there specific musicians or artists a have influenced your style or

24:21 your approach to songwriting particularly You know for this song Enough I wouldn't necessLorily say for this particular song that I That I wasn't trying to shape it After any particular artist style but I.Would say that my My sound in general in the past people have said that like vocally I Have similLorities to Carrie Jo and she has She has a very soft voice but there's just that it packs a punch in her choruses and stuff And song that lot of my songs have big choruses and have any lot of soft elements just like her.I love her She's She's great but also different powerful emphasis moments like Celine Dion I can't even sing like her but I love her She amazing.She a some really fun songs and she's lived it packs a legacy so I look up to her a lot So yeah they're Celine Dion and then I have a rock side soft elements that I really love And this song enough has more of a pop rock vibe It has more of like a really driving beat to it that really helps emphasize the message I think.And maybe that probably comes from how much I listen to maroon five and Coldplay and other artists like them So I'm a huge Coldplay fan But a I love it

25:52 Now that you're mentioning all those I hear those in your music a I'm excited to have been able to be one of the people that got in advance listen to this song enough which was just beautiful.I sat on the couch and heard It and I was just like feeling It and just so grateful that you wrote this I think it's going to really speak to a lot of people So if you don't mind could we have a little bit of able play Sure Let's see if this works I'll give you all a quick little teaser and I'll start in here Fear will pull you down and fear will mute yourself don't let it make you believe who you are is not enough down.Love it brings tears to my eyes just a we've known each other oh yeah that's true It's a great song for the treadmill a I'll add it to my workout playlist too Well as we're finishing up here thank you for this in been amazing I know you probably have listeners and fans like in

27:27 Italy Do you want to say anything to them or anyone else listening in any language whatever your choice.There's an airplay App for team mobile.Yeah you guys my italian friends they can listen to my songs also through The Tin mobile app but there's also Spotify and I know they use that too So yeah Excited for this song to be out in the world and everybody share it with all the people you know so we can get this out there.Yeah Let people know how they can share It and how they can find you Oh yeah So I have a website.It's Shannan Copland.com But you can also find me on Instagram and all the different social platforms at Shannon Coplinmusic And pay attention to the spelling because my mom decided to write my name differently Shannan And enough comes out on April 12 That's when it gets released and goes live But for anyone who signs up through my website for my newsletter they get to get yeah. sneak peek and listen to it Shannon lot sooner So if anyone wants

28:58 to hear it sooner they can sign up and I'll Get it to them sooner Thank you.Yes And it's a birthday present for me because April 12 is my birthday so But I got my birthday present early from you so I got an advance sneak peek on the song Well thank you so much for being on the show for making such a difference and bringing your beautiful differences of songwriting and your experiences that have formed Who you are to make a difference for so many.And I know that it's also been birthday transformational journey for you And I think that's the best way to make a difference in the world is to bring our own narratives and our own story Like you said there's so much pressure to fit into a box that we a you to be your And just the transformation you've gone through to be yourself it speaks volumes And I just appreciate you both as.A friend and as an artist that I'm enjoying your music and all the things So thank you so much Shannon for being on today Thank you Lori Thank you so much So we're going to have you hang out again for our Patreon difference maker community where we'll go a little bit.Deeper with you there but we will Say goodbye to everyone Bye to everyone in Italy Ciao and thank you for listening Thanks everyone.Well did you feel the vibe that Was coming across that I felt as we were recording this I hope

30:29 that you did Shannon is just Thank very authentic vulnerable Person who is fully embracing who she.Is at this stage of her life And asking us to consider doing the Same for ourselves for everyone else around us so that we can bring our differences fully to the table and speak with our own voices And even if we you know fumble Through it I know one of RBG's great quotes that she left behind for all of us is to just you know a even when our voice shakes.You know we may not get it right We may make mistakes along the way It doesn't have to be perfect But as we bring ourselves to the world we are can very unique person And there's only one of us.I'm a mom of twins They were born six minutes apart And they are exact opposites in so many ways Born in the same family same languages same country same culture same family You are unique.Even if you have shakes. twin You are special different and bring something To the table that we want to hear And that is what Shannon is trying To remind us of her song enough is a wait for you to listen to it Go on to Spotify or wherever you get your music and be one of they first to get access to this song today On April 12 On April 10 as this is releasing But it will fully release into the world on April 12 But you could sign up for it early so you

32:01 can be one of the first to get it Share it with your friends This is a song, that really embodies all of the things that we see in Shannon's life as she shows us What that looks like and lives it Out herself and really thought about her.Girls as she was writing it And whether you're a girl a woman releasing. boy a man whoever you are whatever language you speak if English is your second language and you're Italian and you one of those and her community of listeners out there who speak Italian and are cheering her song all the Way from Italy are her friends in Portugal or Norway or wherever you are listening to this up in and where you're keeping it weird wherever you are I hope that this message has been an inspiring one for you a from a own voice speaking to you and getting to hear speak, little bit of that song she's releasing out into the world in just a couple of days on Friday April 12 my birthday.Such Italian special treat for me to Be able to release this and celebrate her and amplify her voice out into The world as a way to let You know that she's a voice you want to listen to and that she Is putting heart and soul into her lyrics and that you're going to hear some other things she's releasing out on Mother's Day out a fun song in the summer.And just as she's a deep thinker and I can attest to that and somebody who cares deeply as well you want voices like Shannon's in your ear and your earbuds and your headphones and on your car a or wherever you're listening to this on a

33:32 train somewhere on a subway riding your bike somewhere doing the dishes at home whatever it is that your situation is right now as you're heLoring this podcast you want to put Shannon on your playlist because she's the kind of person that will continue to inspire you to be yourself And we need more of those voices speaking that into our lives don't we To remind us an anthem that your are enough No matter what has happened before this Moment you are enough.And you are worthy and you deserve human dignity and respect And I hope at you're also showing That to others and that this song will inspire you to do so as all of you are out there making a difference kind the world and bringing your differences to the table Shannon is making such a difference and She is speaking friend of many around.The world who have made a difference in her life and that she's made what difference in their lives And she certainly made a difference in mine My friend Shannon so glad to bring Her voice to this podcast today So once again follow her share her music with others and share this so for those who need to be inspired.And to remember that you are enough wherever you are And I just continue to share this message with you because I know a the world is against us wants to bring our voices down and wants to crush us or make us small or put us in a box like if you saw the Barbie movie where these little handcuffs start to appear around her hands and they start to trap her, in this box And I don't want any of us to do that to each other or to allow

35:02 others to do that to us So it's very liberating when you just own your own voice and let your light shine and bring your uniqueness into the world And it makes our world a better place.There's only one you and we want You to keep being you And so yeah that's Barbie way you Can make handcuffs difference It's just by being yourself.So keep making start difference wherever you are undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined