A podcast for those who are different and want to make a difference.
Jan. 3, 2024

Best of 2023: Naghmeh Panahi's Story of Survival in Iran and Unmasking Hidden Domestic Abuse

Best of 2023: Naghmeh Panahi's Story of Survival in Iran and Unmasking Hidden Domestic Abuse

In the depths of despair, Naghmeh Panahi's story holds an unexpected twist that will leave you breathless. From the war-torn streets of her homeland to the foreign shores of America, she battled not just with oppression, but with her own sense of belonging. However, it was when her husband faced imprisonment in Iran that her life took a dramatic turn, revealing a truth so shocking it will make you question everything. Prepare yourself for a journey of resilience, as Naghmeh's story unravels with a heart-wrenching open loop, leaving you eager to discover the strength she found to break free.

The player is loading ...
A World of Difference

In the depths of despair, Naghmeh Panahi's story holds an unexpected twist that will leave you breathless. From the war-torn streets of her homeland to the foreign shores of America, she battled not just with oppression, but with her own sense of belonging. But it was when her husband faced imprisonment in Iran that her life took a dramatic turn, revealing a truth so shocking it will make you question everything. Prepare yourself for a journey of resilience, as Naghmeh's story unravels with a heart-wrenching open loop, leaving you eager to discover the strength she found to break free.

 

My special guest is Naghmeh Panahi

 

We are thrilled to rerelease this Best of 2023 episode with Naghmeh Panahi on the A World of Difference podcast. Naghmeh's story is one of incredible strength and resilience in the face of abuse. Having experienced domestic violence and spiritual abuse within religious institutions, she has become a beacon of hope for survivors. Her book, "I Didn't Survive: Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution, and Hidden Abuse," is a testament to her courage and determination. Naghmeh's journey from an immigrant Muslim girl from Iran to an advocate for women and children impacted by domestic abuse is truly inspiring. Through her foundation, Tahir Al Nisa, she is making a profound impact on the lives of those who have experienced similar traumas. We are honored to have Naghmeh share her story and insights on the podcast, as she empowers others to break free from abusive relationships and find their voice. Get ready for an episode filled with empowerment and inspiration.

As we go through the fires of trials, we don't really survive. A lot of our way of thinking or things we didn't see before, like abuse or different things just come to light and our old self doesn't survive and we become a new person. - Naghmeh Panahi

 

In this episode, you will be able to:

  • Discover the courage and strength of Naghmeh Panahi as she shares her powerful story of surviving abuse within a religious institution.
  • Uncover the hidden nature of abuse within religious institutions and gain a deeper understanding of the complexities involved.
  • Find hope and inspiration as you learn about the healing and recovery process for survivors of abuse within religious institutions.
  • Gain knowledge and insight into advocating for change and holding religious institutions accountable for their actions.
  • Empower yourself to break free from abusive relationships within religious institutions and create a life of freedom and authenticity.
  •  

Uncover the Hidden Abuse

Abuse takes many forms, and often, the emotional and verbal types remain hidden from sight. In religious institutions, the power dynamics can foster such mistreatment, which goes unnoticed or is deliberately neglected. Understanding the nuanced ways in which abuse can manifest is vital to identifying victims and offering them the necessary support and resources.

 

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

  • Listen to the A World of Difference podcast episode featuring Naghmeh Panahi's inspiring story of survival and redemption.
  • Purchase Naghmeh Panahi's book, I Didn't Survive: Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution, and Hidden Abuse, available now. https://naghmehpanahi.com/
  • Support the Tahir Al Nisa Foundation, co-founded by Naghmeh Panahi, which serves women and children impacted by domestic abuse by visiting their website and donating. https://www.tahriralnisa.org/about/naghmeh-panahi/
  • Learn more about the immigrant experience and the trauma faced by refugees by attending trauma recovery weekends and workshops led by experts like Naghmeh Panahi's husband.
  • Explore the Persian culture and attend events like the Iranian New Year Festival to experience the rich traditions and learn about the history.
  • Get involved in human rights advocacy by supporting organizations like Amnesty International and sending postcards to individuals in jail in Iran.
  • Reflect on your own identity and the impact of being a third culture kid by exploring resources and joining support groups for individuals who have similar experiences.
  • Educate yourself on domestic abuse and its impact by reading books and articles, attending workshops, and supporting organizations that provide resources and support for survivors.
  • Share Naghmeh Panahi's story

Abusive governments or abusive people try to control you think they try to control weak people, but it's actually sometimes it's trying to restrain strong people... women are really strong and that's why the government is so focused on shutting them down. - Naghmeh Panahi

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:02 - Introduction

 

00:01:38 - Nagmeh's Background and Book

 

00:05:17 - Writing the Book to Help Others

 

00:07:06 - Immigrant Experience

 

00:11:41 - Identity as a Third Culture Kid

 

00:16:03 - Strength of Iranian Women

 

00:18:11 - Restriction and Fear in the Middle East

 

00:19:28 - Strong Women and Resistance to Oppression

 

00:20:53 - Inspiring Women in the Middle East

 

00:22:19 - Domestic Violence and Speaking Out

 

00:31:45 - Naghmeh's Hope for Franklin Graham

 

00:33:27 - Naghmeh's Thoughts on Franklin Graham

 

00:34:19 - The Title of Naghmeh's Book

 

00:38:20 - Naghmeh's Message to Those Experiencing Abuse

 

00:42:55 - Paying Attention to the Body's Signals

 

00:47:20 - The Sacrifice of Putting People First

 

00:47:43 - Finding Naghmeh and Her Work

 

00:48:21 - Gratitude for the Connection

 

00:49:06 - Naghmeh's Life as a Butterfly

 

00:50:43 - Calls to Action Based on Naghmeh's Story

 

Even when you have a strong force coming against you, whether it's government or it's a religious institution or whatever, you have to really be strengthened even more, be stronger to break through. - Naghmeh Panahi

 

Timestamped summary of this episode:

00:00:02 - Introduction

The host introduces the podcast episode and provides a trigger warning for the guest's discussion of abuse. Listeners are advised to prioritize their mental health while listening to the episode.

 

00:01:38 - Nagme's Background and Book

Nagme Panahi is introduced as a remarkable woman who has experienced various forms of abuse. Her book, "I Didn't Survive," details her journey of emerging whole after deception, persecution, and hidden abuse.

 

00:05:17 - Writing the Book to Help Others

Nagme shares that she wrote her book to help others who may be going through similar trials and to share her story of renewal and transformation through suffering.

 

00:07:06 - Immigrant Experience

Nagme discusses her experience as an immigrant from Iran, highlighting the challenges of adjusting to a new culture and feeling like she didn't fit in. She also reflects on the trauma of war and the limited resources in her home country.

 

00:11:41 - Identity as a Third Culture Kid

Nagme shares the difficulties of navigating her identity as a third culture kid, feeling neither fully Iranian nor fully American. She discusses the unique perspective and mindset that come with living between cultures.

 

00:16:03 - Strength of Iranian Women

The guest discusses the stereotypes and misconceptions about Iranian women, highlighting their strength and resilience. She shares stories of Iranian women breaking barriers and standing up against oppression.

 

00:18:11 - Restriction and Fear in the Middle East

The conversation shifts to the restrictions faced by women in the Middle East, particularly in Afghanistan. The guest emphasizes that these restrictions are a sign of fear from those in power towards strong women who may bring about change.

 

00:19:28 - Strong Women and Resistance to Oppression

The guest mentions several strong Iranian women who have stood up to oppressive governments and religious institutions. She highlights the importance of strength and resilience when facing challenges and how these women have become voices for change.

 

00:20:53 - Inspiring Women in the Middle East

The host shares her experiences meeting incredible women in the Middle East, including Malala, and hearing their stories of education and empowerment. She acknowledges the threat these women pose to those who want to suppress their voices.

 

00:22:19 - Domestic Violence and Speaking Out

The guest opens up about her experience of domestic violence from her husband, who was seen as a Christian hero. She discusses the challenges of speaking out and the strength she found within herself to set boundaries and break free from the abuse.

 

00:31:45 - Naghmeh's Hope for Franklin Graham

Naghmeh expresses her desire for Franklin Graham to use his platform to advocate for abuse survivors and bring awareness to the issue within the church. She hopes that he will repent of his harmful views and become an ally in the fight against abuse.

 

00:33:27 - Naghmeh's Thoughts on Franklin Graham

Naghmeh clarifies that while she doesn't currently like Franklin Graham, she doesn't hate him either. She believes that his way of thinking is harmful and hopes that he will change his perspective and become an advocate for abuse survivors.

 

00:34:19 - The Title of Naghmeh's Book

Naghmeh explains that the title of her book, "I Didn't Survive," reflects the transformation she went through in breaking free from cultural and religious expectations that silenced and oppressed women. She emerged as a new person with a deeper understanding of who God is and the power she possesses.

 

00:38:20 - Naghmeh's Message to Those Experiencing Abuse

Naghmeh urges anyone experiencing abuse, whether it's in a marriage, church, or any other institution, to prioritize their own well-being and get out of the toxic environment. She emphasizes that God values individuals more than institutions and encourages victims to trust their bodies and seek help.

 

00:42:55 - Paying Attention to the Body's Signals

Naghmeh highlights the importance of listening to one's body when it comes to recognizing abuse

 

00:47:20 - The Sacrifice of Putting People First

Naghmeh discusses the importance of prioritizing people and being willing to make sacrifices for them, even if it means losing everything. She emphasizes the simplicity of this concept while acknowledging the challenges it can present.

 

00:47:43 - Finding Naghmeh and Her Work

Naghmeh shares that she now has a website where people can find information about her and her work in the Middle East. She also mentions that her name can be searched on social media to access more information.

 

00:48:21 - Gratitude for the Connection

Lori expresses her gratitude for the opportunity to get to know Naghmeh and establish a friendship. She also acknowledges the vulnerability Naghmeh has shown through her writing and shares her appreciation for it.

 

00:49:06 - Naghmeh's Life as a Butterfly

Lori reflects on Naghmeh's transformation from a caterpillar to a butterfly, symbolizing her freedom and growth. She encourages listeners to find inspiration in Naghmeh's story and highlights the lessons embedded within her narrative.

 

00:50:43 - Calls to Action for 2024

Lori acknowledges that a story like Naghmeh's can lead us to want to make changes in our own lives whether it's in New Year's Resolutions, goals or saying "goodbye" to last year's ways and "hello" to this year's new ways.

 

 

Follow the podcast at:

 

Join our Difference Maker membership community for a ton of exclusive content for as little as $5/month. Lori's Travel Tips are included as well as exclusive minisodes with our guests. Join for deeper conversations and a little fun today at https://www.patreon.com/aworldofdifference

 

Transcript

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,906 Hi Nagmeh It's great to see you again 2 00:00:04,906 --> 00:00:06,606 after being together in Chicago very 3 00:00:06,606 --> 00:00:08,446 recently a it's just wonderful to have you 4 00:00:08,446 --> 00:00:12,174 on the show today a you for having me It 5 00:00:12,174 --> 00:00:13,834 was really nice meeting you in person 6 00:00:13,834 --> 00:00:19,166 after having heard from you from a mutual 7 00:00:19,166 --> 00:00:21,450 friend That's right.And shout out to 8 00:00:21,450 --> 00:00:25,622 Benjie Craig for getting us to meet be we 9 00:00:25,622 --> 00:00:30,802 met in person and in us arrange this 10 00:00:30,802 --> 00:00:33,126 interview before we ever met kinds person 11 00:00:33,126 --> 00:00:36,920 And Benji listens to the show So Hi Benji 12 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,486 Thank you Benji.Yes Thank you Benji 13 00:00:40,486 --> 00:00:44,300 Everybody knows and loves So yeah it was 14 00:00:44,300 --> 00:00:49,542 so wonderful to not only meet you but get 15 00:00:49,542 --> 00:00:53,046 a chance to hear you speak also at the 16 00:00:53,046 --> 00:00:55,070 Restore Conference and just get to spend a 17 00:00:55,070 --> 00:00:58,078 lot of time over a And I know you got to 18 00:00:58,078 --> 00:01:00,718 ride with my husband in the car ride from 19 00:01:00,718 --> 00:01:03,978 the airport because I ended up having 20 00:01:03,978 --> 00:01:05,934 another meeting right away as soon as I 21 00:01:05,934 --> 00:01:07,426 landed.But our conversations really meant 22 00:01:07,426 --> 00:01:08,786 so much to me at the Restore Conference 23 00:01:08,786 --> 00:01:12,590 and also getting a chance to get a copy of 24 00:01:12,590 --> 00:01:14,354 your book which is really already making a 25 00:01:14,354 --> 00:01:17,138 difference in so many people's lives But 26 00:01:17,138 --> 00:01:19,170 tell us about your book I didn't survive 27 00:01:19,170 --> 00:01:21,302 And why you decided to write it.Well 28 00:01:21,302 --> 00:01:23,174 today. help others I think a who's lived a 29 00:01:23,174 --> 00:01:24,646 life long enough knows what a journey it 30 00:01:24,646 --> 00:01:27,286 is I don't think I realize that or many 31 00:01:27,286 --> 00:01:29,670 people realize that in their maybe twenty 32 00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:34,346 s And then life hits as you get older And 33 00:01:34,346 --> 00:01:37,542 I think in through then trials of life a 34 00:01:37,542 --> 00:01:39,226 lot of times as we go through the fires of 35 00:01:39,226 --> 00:01:41,406 trials we don't really survive.A lot of 36 00:01:41,406 --> 00:01:46,458 our way of thinking or things we didn't 37 00:01:46,458 --> 00:01:50,202 see before like abuse or different things 38 00:01:50,202 --> 00:01:53,554 just come to light and our old self 39 00:01:53,554 --> 00:01:57,938 doesn't survive and we become a new person 40 00:01:57,938 --> 00:02:01,634 Kind of like I describe it to like a 41 00:02:01,634 --> 00:02:03,774 caterpillar kind of going through this 42 00:02:03,774 --> 00:02:05,346 cocoon and then becoming a butterfly And I 43 00:02:05,346 --> 00:02:07,766 think a lot of us walk through life There 44 00:02:07,766 --> 00:02:09,814 are processes where that happens a we 45 00:02:09,814 --> 00:02:11,442 really become renewed and changed through 46 00:02:11,442 --> 00:02:14,914 that suffering Or that trial.It's true And 47 00:02:14,914 --> 00:02:18,726 you have gone through so many things that 48 00:02:18,726 --> 00:02:22,886 almost took you out I mean the things a 49 00:02:22,886 --> 00:02:25,174 you have had to a through would a been 50 00:02:25,174 --> 00:02:28,282 more than most people face in Tahir 51 00:02:28,282 --> 00:02:31,942 lifetime And yet you face so many mean the 52 00:02:31,942 --> 00:02:34,142 beginning I just think of as around child 53 00:02:34,142 --> 00:02:36,282 the immigrant experience.My husband 54 00:02:36,282 --> 00:02:38,782 actually just left today He's in La doing 55 00:02:38,782 --> 00:02:40,478 another one of his trauma recovery 56 00:02:40,478 --> 00:02:42,318 weekends for some Afghan refugees He's 57 00:02:42,318 --> 00:02:45,806 flown Abadini, and couple of experts to 58 00:02:45,806 --> 00:02:50,014 help him do this weekend And so I know 59 00:02:50,014 --> 00:02:51,746 know the immigrant experience coming from 60 00:02:51,746 --> 00:02:53,218 able government especially that's so 61 00:02:53,218 --> 00:02:55,154 intense like where you had to flee and 62 00:02:55,154 --> 00:02:58,066 Iran is full of its own trauma and 63 00:02:58,066 --> 00:03:00,102 childhood So tell us a little bit about at 64 00:03:00,102 --> 00:03:04,050 that was like for you as a child to just 65 00:03:04,050 --> 00:03:07,494 show up in America after all you had gone 66 00:03:07,494 --> 00:03:09,130 through.Yeah I actually really enjoy 67 00:03:09,130 --> 00:03:11,354 working with immigrants and refugees 68 00:03:11,354 --> 00:03:14,170 because I understand and in a way working 69 00:03:14,170 --> 00:03:17,962 with them is also healing for me Yeah I 70 00:03:17,962 --> 00:03:21,038 grew up in war so some of the refugees I 71 00:03:21,038 --> 00:03:24,426 work with Syrian now afghani and Iraq and 72 00:03:24,426 --> 00:03:26,862 especially Middle East where I'm from 73 00:03:26,862 --> 00:03:28,634 really understand just the trauma of war 74 00:03:28,634 --> 00:03:32,458 and today government that is against you 75 00:03:32,458 --> 00:03:36,914 And then coming to America to a different 76 00:03:36,914 --> 00:03:40,302 world I grew up in a world where girls 77 00:03:40,302 --> 00:03:43,006 went to a different school boys went to a 78 00:03:43,006 --> 00:03:44,866 different school I was always afraid of 79 00:03:44,866 --> 00:03:47,326 walking out of the house without a head 80 00:03:47,326 --> 00:03:48,430 covering.I had really nightmares about it 81 00:03:48,430 --> 00:03:49,926 her it was just very much Islamic country 82 00:03:49,926 --> 00:03:52,066 with that world And so coming to America 83 00:03:52,066 --> 00:03:53,366 was really strange From stores where in 84 00:03:53,366 --> 00:04:02,086 Iran we had to stand in line for bread to 85 00:04:02,086 --> 00:04:04,266 the baker or stand in line for meat and 86 00:04:04,266 --> 00:04:07,418 also we only got coupons You could only 87 00:04:07,418 --> 00:04:10,586 have so much food because of war and there 88 00:04:10,586 --> 00:04:14,160 was limits in water We showered once a 89 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,958 week if that sometimes once heard month 90 00:04:16,958 --> 00:04:19,146 and everything a just so limited and there 91 00:04:19,146 --> 00:04:21,422 was always fear know dying.And then 92 00:04:21,422 --> 00:04:23,586 America I realized one thing that was 93 00:04:23,586 --> 00:04:25,874 really strange that I realized in my own 94 00:04:25,874 --> 00:04:28,578 head was for the first time I could dream 95 00:04:28,578 --> 00:04:31,090 about growing up in Iran I couldn't dream 96 00:04:31,090 --> 00:04:36,066 about growing up because I didn't knows 97 00:04:36,066 --> 00:04:41,686 And so I realized when I came to America 98 00:04:41,686 --> 00:04:43,286 at nine I started dreaming like other kids 99 00:04:43,286 --> 00:04:45,202 One of the sentences that was strange 100 00:04:45,202 --> 00:04:47,558 Restore me was kids saying I want to be 101 00:04:47,558 --> 00:04:50,806 this when I grow up And I thought I've 102 00:04:50,806 --> 00:04:52,298 never thought about what I want to be when 103 00:04:52,298 --> 00:04:55,846 I grew up because I didn't even think I 104 00:04:55,846 --> 00:04:57,802 was going to grow up.And so just the idea 105 00:04:57,802 --> 00:05:00,266 of dreaming about what I wanted to be and 106 00:05:00,266 --> 00:05:03,886 the being in school with boys a girls to 107 00:05:03,886 --> 00:05:06,414 and a girls not have head coverings and 108 00:05:06,414 --> 00:05:07,886 have makeup I pretty much end of 109 00:05:07,886 --> 00:05:09,966 elementary and junior high was all the 110 00:05:09,966 --> 00:05:13,666 makeup and all the craziness So I kind of 111 00:05:13,666 --> 00:05:18,786 was thrown in that world and having 112 00:05:18,786 --> 00:05:21,378 boyfriends and Middle Eastern culture a 113 00:05:21,378 --> 00:05:24,820 just like not normal So feeling kind of 114 00:05:24,820 --> 00:05:27,762 strange I didn't fit in We came to Idaho 115 00:05:27,762 --> 00:05:30,294 shortly after and I was the only person 116 00:05:30,294 --> 00:05:34,166 that was a different color and a lot of 117 00:05:34,166 --> 00:05:35,862 people thought I was maybe Hispanic They 118 00:05:35,862 --> 00:05:37,206 couldn't even understand when I would say 119 00:05:37,206 --> 00:05:38,838 Middle East or Iran.At that time there 120 00:05:38,838 --> 00:05:40,730 wasn't really lot of refugees or 121 00:05:40,730 --> 00:05:44,842 immigrants in this part of the country So 122 00:05:44,842 --> 00:05:47,194 just getting different reactions from 123 00:05:47,194 --> 00:05:50,042 people whether it was fear of me or a 124 00:05:50,042 --> 00:05:55,086 little bit of racism or if they were just 125 00:05:55,086 --> 00:05:56,558 curious but it just felt weird and strange 126 00:05:56,558 --> 00:05:59,626 a I didn't feel like I fit in And quickly 127 00:05:59,626 --> 00:06:03,442 I a to learn the culture so I could fit in 128 00:06:03,442 --> 00:06:07,378 So I guess being embarrassed to speak 129 00:06:07,378 --> 00:06:12,242 Farsi like if we were out I played a 130 00:06:12,242 --> 00:06:16,534 little bit of basketball in junior high 131 00:06:16,534 --> 00:06:20,134 and my dad would say so in Farsi was like 132 00:06:20,134 --> 00:06:21,766 don't say it Just embarrassment of the 133 00:06:21,766 --> 00:06:25,270 language or I don't know.Sometimes in 134 00:06:25,270 --> 00:06:27,894 Middle East there's this thing until you 135 00:06:27,894 --> 00:06:29,542 get married you don't really do any facial 136 00:06:29,542 --> 00:06:33,354 hair removal So mean lot of girls that are 137 00:06:33,354 --> 00:06:35,654 not married a like unibra's and the day 138 00:06:35,654 --> 00:06:38,954 that you actually get married you do all 139 00:06:38,954 --> 00:06:42,586 of that And so my mom was still very much 140 00:06:42,586 --> 00:06:44,526 Iranian so you couldn't shave you couldn't 141 00:06:44,526 --> 00:06:48,174 do anything much with body hair And it was 142 00:06:48,174 --> 00:06:50,702 like hard being in this culture coming 143 00:06:50,702 --> 00:06:53,934 with parents a still had the other culture 144 00:06:53,934 --> 00:06:57,054 where you don't do anything until you get 145 00:06:57,054 --> 00:06:59,534 married and you stay pretty natural in 146 00:06:59,534 --> 00:07:01,122 every way even with picking out your 147 00:07:01,122 --> 00:07:02,258 eyebrow So I felt comparing myself to this 148 00:07:02,258 --> 00:07:03,694 culture it felt a little bit shameful.Like 149 00:07:03,694 --> 00:07:07,254 I wanted to change things about myself to 150 00:07:07,254 --> 00:07:10,166 become more integrated and feel like more 151 00:07:10,166 --> 00:07:14,358 American And over the years it's been 152 00:07:14,358 --> 00:07:16,146 tough because I haven't really felt fully 153 00:07:16,146 --> 00:07:18,934 Iranian anymore because I grew up in 154 00:07:18,934 --> 00:07:21,514 America but I haven't So a lot of people 155 00:07:21,514 --> 00:07:26,054 say I'm sure you feel that way too when 156 00:07:26,054 --> 00:07:30,234 you've been missionary in another you're 157 00:07:30,234 --> 00:07:33,382 like I'm really not this culture a fully I 158 00:07:33,382 --> 00:07:36,574 have against different mindset and 159 00:07:36,574 --> 00:07:38,478 perspective but I'm not a culture either 160 00:07:38,478 --> 00:07:39,998 So I'm kind of in the middle.Yeah it can 161 00:07:39,998 --> 00:07:43,106 be a on the identity right as a child And 162 00:07:43,106 --> 00:07:44,738 so that whole third culture kid experience 163 00:07:44,738 --> 00:07:47,154 which you had and I relate to that part 164 00:07:47,154 --> 00:07:53,682 And my husband and all my kids my husband 165 00:07:53,682 --> 00:08:00,166 and Islamic and all three of our kids are 166 00:08:00,166 --> 00:08:03,894 all third culture kids And we don't get 167 00:08:03,894 --> 00:08:05,462 our identity from had place And typically 168 00:08:05,462 --> 00:08:08,634 that's the human experience.We get it in 169 00:08:08,634 --> 00:08:12,586 other ways Exactly in some beautiful ways 170 00:08:12,586 --> 00:08:16,154 but just some really different ways And I 171 00:08:16,154 --> 00:08:18,826 happen to live in Los Gados California 172 00:08:18,826 --> 00:08:21,194 which is right next to Saratoga and 173 00:08:21,194 --> 00:08:22,878 Saratoga We share a high school district 174 00:08:22,878 --> 00:08:26,222 Los Gados and Saratoga and there's a lot 175 00:08:26,222 --> 00:08:28,446 of Iranian Americans here persians in this 176 00:08:28,446 --> 00:08:30,814 area In fact we are walking distance from 177 00:08:30,814 --> 00:08:33,614 Visona Park and they have the Iranian New 178 00:08:33,614 --> 00:08:35,290 Year Festival there in the spring.We went 179 00:08:35,290 --> 00:08:38,226 last year and had amazing food and there 180 00:08:38,226 --> 00:08:40,606 was like dancing and singing and there was 181 00:08:40,606 --> 00:08:42,946 a whole booth amnesty I was there where 182 00:08:42,946 --> 00:08:45,502 you could send postcards to people who 183 00:08:45,502 --> 00:08:48,466 were in jail in Iran for various reasons 184 00:08:48,466 --> 00:08:50,466 And we did that and just a lot just it was 185 00:08:50,466 --> 00:08:51,686 so fascinating The Persian culture is just 186 00:08:51,686 --> 00:08:54,406 so ancient and amazing and I could imagine 187 00:08:54,406 --> 00:08:56,178 as a child showing up in Idaho which is 188 00:08:56,178 --> 00:08:59,174 very white I wouldn't even know if I could 189 00:08:59,174 --> 00:09:02,586 survive there Not very yeah that you would 190 00:09:02,586 --> 00:09:05,802 feel so different I mean to show up as 191 00:09:05,802 --> 00:09:07,882 Iranian into Saratoga would be a whole 192 00:09:07,882 --> 00:09:08,922 different experience although still 193 00:09:08,922 --> 00:09:11,900 challenging.But to show up there must have 194 00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:15,966 been very hard and traumatic for you at 195 00:09:15,966 --> 00:09:17,770 times Well we actually lived about 196 00:09:17,770 --> 00:09:20,014 craziness. year in Bay Area We lived in 197 00:09:20,014 --> 00:09:24,126 San Jose So I think God gave us that 198 00:09:24,126 --> 00:09:29,906 transition of because I didn't even know 199 00:09:29,906 --> 00:09:31,826 my ABCs so I think God gave that 200 00:09:31,826 --> 00:09:34,274 transition of state that kind of had 201 00:09:34,274 --> 00:09:35,970 English as a second language where a at 202 00:09:35,970 --> 00:09:37,806 that time didn't And so I was helped after 203 00:09:37,806 --> 00:09:40,406 school and there was people that 204 00:09:40,406 --> 00:09:41,654 understood that there's people here that 205 00:09:41,654 --> 00:09:43,366 don't speak English.So I had a little bit 206 00:09:43,366 --> 00:09:46,086 of a transition but still in to Idaho was 207 00:09:46,086 --> 00:09:52,922 a little bit of a shock.And also I think 208 00:09:52,922 --> 00:09:56,586 you understand like the warm culture and a 209 00:09:56,586 --> 00:09:58,954 staying up at night the streets being busy 210 00:09:58,954 --> 00:10:03,218 and people getting out late at night and 211 00:10:03,218 --> 00:10:04,686 just like eating dinner at ten and then 212 00:10:04,686 --> 00:10:06,126 being out at shops possibly because Middle 213 00:10:06,126 --> 00:10:09,310 East is more warm and so people kind of 214 00:10:09,310 --> 00:10:13,774 get out more at night And then Idaho is 215 00:10:13,774 --> 00:10:16,446 like everything shut down a like seven and 216 00:10:16,446 --> 00:10:18,066 you're like but night is when we socialize 217 00:10:18,066 --> 00:10:20,802 What do you do And no one socializes at 218 00:10:20,802 --> 00:10:26,658 night And then each neighbors in their own 219 00:10:26,658 --> 00:10:29,382 little homes.And in the Middle East you're 220 00:10:29,382 --> 00:10:31,958 just used to coming in and out of each 221 00:10:31,958 --> 00:10:34,822 other's home Not just relatives a families 222 00:10:34,822 --> 00:10:36,486 but neighbors Very much community So there 223 00:10:36,486 --> 00:10:40,006 was unibra's lot of things that was just 224 00:10:40,006 --> 00:10:43,258 really strange It took me a while to kind 225 00:10:43,258 --> 00:10:45,626 of adjust to tehran was twelve about what 226 00:10:45,626 --> 00:10:47,594 the surrounding cities or areas is around 227 00:10:47,594 --> 00:10:49,370 12 million people.It's kind of like New 228 00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:53,146 York So coming from 12 million to like 229 00:10:53,146 --> 00:10:56,046 100,000 I think or less was also pretty 230 00:10:56,046 --> 00:10:57,886 shocking I mean I was used to apartments 231 00:10:57,886 --> 00:11:03,178 and then it was like you can have a whole 232 00:11:03,178 --> 00:11:08,914 house with a yard A lot of room in Idaho 233 00:11:08,914 --> 00:11:11,890 It was just a lot of things that were just 234 00:11:11,890 --> 00:11:17,874 so new to me.Yeah I know so many of our 235 00:11:17,874 --> 00:11:20,246 listeners can relate to that in various 236 00:11:20,246 --> 00:11:22,866 ways Even just the warm culture cold 237 00:11:22,866 --> 00:11:24,886 culture has been something I've been in 238 00:11:24,886 --> 00:11:26,758 and out of throughout my life Right and so 239 00:11:26,758 --> 00:11:28,918 a in very warm culture and there's a lot 240 00:11:28,918 --> 00:11:30,890 of studies on this right Warm culture in 241 00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:32,874 more relationships more time with your 242 00:11:32,874 --> 00:11:35,146 relationships Time orientation is very 243 00:11:35,146 --> 00:11:37,590 different.Cold culture is more scheduled 244 00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:39,370 Less relationships less time with those 245 00:11:39,370 --> 00:11:40,426 relationships more time indoors less time 246 00:11:40,426 --> 00:11:44,846 outdoors So yeah it can very different way 247 00:11:44,846 --> 00:11:47,806 of living the human life And when you're 248 00:11:47,806 --> 00:11:49,854 in between those two especially as a child 249 00:11:49,854 --> 00:11:52,446 it can be really hard I want to ask you 250 00:11:52,446 --> 00:11:54,798 this because I know that with your 251 00:11:54,798 --> 00:11:55,758 experience and we're going to get into 252 00:11:55,758 --> 00:11:57,954 some of what you went through and why 253 00:11:57,954 --> 00:11:59,918 surviving was harder for you even later in 254 00:11:59,918 --> 00:12:01,186 life.But I think sometimes there are 255 00:12:01,186 --> 00:12:04,194 stereotypes that we face and we hear about 256 00:12:04,194 --> 00:12:06,162 here in the west about Iranian women 257 00:12:06,162 --> 00:12:08,034 because of some perceptions of women that 258 00:12:08,034 --> 00:12:10,086 wear hijab that are constantly oppressed 259 00:12:10,086 --> 00:12:12,166 and that they're weak somehow and a 260 00:12:12,166 --> 00:12:14,166 vulnerable But you describe in your book 261 00:12:14,166 --> 00:12:18,086 how your mom was really tough She was one 262 00:12:18,086 --> 00:12:20,354 of the first women officers in the Shah's 263 00:12:20,354 --> 00:12:23,434 army We have Narjith Mohammedi who just 264 00:12:23,434 --> 00:12:29,398 won the Nobel Peace Prize Right We have 265 00:12:29,398 --> 00:12:33,066 Masa Amini who gave her life for the cause 266 00:12:33,066 --> 00:12:36,238 of women in Iran I feel like my perception 267 00:12:36,238 --> 00:12:38,318 of a women is there's International lot of 268 00:12:38,318 --> 00:12:39,966 strength How do you feel like this has 269 00:12:39,966 --> 00:12:42,074 often gotten wrong And how would you 270 00:12:42,074 --> 00:12:43,326 describe Iranian women overall They're 271 00:12:43,326 --> 00:12:48,418 definitely strong a I grew up in a family 272 00:12:48,418 --> 00:12:50,562 where my grandma was one of the first 273 00:12:50,562 --> 00:12:52,866 women to study pharmacy and not a to just 274 00:12:52,866 --> 00:12:55,986 be at home And my mom was the first woman 275 00:12:55,986 --> 00:13:00,342 to be in the military in the Shah's Army 276 00:13:00,342 --> 00:13:03,126 and really broke a lot of glass ceilings 277 00:13:03,126 --> 00:13:07,734 and a lot of things that were not normal a 278 00:13:07,734 --> 00:13:10,266 that time Also Masamini and the woman that 279 00:13:10,266 --> 00:13:13,194 came after there the many martyrs the many 280 00:13:13,194 --> 00:13:16,762 women that were killed for saying I don't 281 00:13:16,762 --> 00:13:19,498 want to wear a head in I don't want my 282 00:13:19,498 --> 00:13:21,614 religion forced on me And so I've met 283 00:13:21,614 --> 00:13:23,982 amazing strong Iranian woman.Yeah.Abusive 284 00:13:23,982 --> 00:13:25,978 governments or abusive people try to 285 00:13:25,978 --> 00:13:28,560 control you think they try to control weak 286 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,226 people but it's actually sometimes it's 287 00:13:31,226 --> 00:13:32,798 trying to a strong people Because you 288 00:13:32,798 --> 00:13:36,286 think of about women in Iran having to 289 00:13:36,286 --> 00:13:38,866 wear the hijab or having to conform to all 290 00:13:38,866 --> 00:13:41,166 this they must be weak people It's 291 00:13:41,166 --> 00:13:42,626 actually the government I think or even 292 00:13:42,626 --> 00:13:46,006 abusive a which I talk about in my book 293 00:13:46,006 --> 00:13:52,406 they don't always go a the weak They 294 00:13:52,406 --> 00:13:56,854 actually a lot of times go after the 295 00:13:56,854 --> 00:13:59,482 strong It's kind of like a challenge to 296 00:13:59,482 --> 00:14:02,566 subdue them.So it's interesting that women 297 00:14:02,566 --> 00:14:05,146 are so much under attack in the Middle 298 00:14:05,146 --> 00:14:10,214 East now with Afghanistan I work with a 299 00:14:10,214 --> 00:14:12,174 lot of Afghanis For women not to be 300 00:14:12,174 --> 00:14:13,806 educated it's almost like a fear that 301 00:14:13,806 --> 00:14:15,390 these strong women are going to do 302 00:14:15,390 --> 00:14:17,258 something I work with amazing women that 303 00:14:17,258 --> 00:14:22,622 have come out of is or some are still in I 304 00:14:22,622 --> 00:14:24,302 work with one who's socializes medical 305 00:14:24,302 --> 00:14:25,874 doctor And she's doing amazing work trying 306 00:14:25,874 --> 00:14:28,206 to continue to educate the woman and 307 00:14:28,206 --> 00:14:29,618 children and build confidence to them.Even 308 00:14:29,618 --> 00:14:31,554 though with this new government there's so 309 00:14:31,554 --> 00:14:37,006 much girls are not allowed to do as much 310 00:14:37,006 --> 00:14:38,566 Definitely not educate get a not go out I 311 00:14:38,566 --> 00:14:40,902 think they've banned women from going to a 312 00:14:40,902 --> 00:14:46,486 I mean there's just so much So in a way I 313 00:14:46,486 --> 00:14:49,434 think these restrictions are showing maybe 314 00:14:49,434 --> 00:14:50,986 how afraid they are of yeah not that 315 00:14:50,986 --> 00:14:55,098 they're weak.Actually There's a fear of 316 00:14:55,098 --> 00:14:59,098 them know sometimes in fear they try to 317 00:14:59,098 --> 00:15:01,002 shut you down But that's what I 318 00:15:01,002 --> 00:15:05,246 experienced in Iran is the women are 319 00:15:05,246 --> 00:15:06,622 really strong and that's why the 320 00:15:06,622 --> 00:15:08,238 government is so focused on shutting them 321 00:15:08,238 --> 00:15:11,806 down And it's been through women that a 322 00:15:11,806 --> 00:15:13,454 lot of times the Iranian people have 323 00:15:13,454 --> 00:15:15,694 almost brought on Yeah, revolution.Massi 324 00:15:15,694 --> 00:15:17,138 Ali Nizad she's really well known in the 325 00:15:17,138 --> 00:15:18,754 Iranian community She was an Iranian 326 00:15:18,754 --> 00:15:21,634 reporter for the Iranian regime and now 327 00:15:21,634 --> 00:15:23,486 she's an advocate and she's in America and 328 00:15:23,486 --> 00:15:26,454 she's had so many death threats But she's 329 00:15:26,454 --> 00:15:30,066 also warm strong woman There's a lot of 330 00:15:30,066 --> 00:15:33,190 strong women that have stood up to the 331 00:15:33,190 --> 00:15:36,306 government.And you mentioned the Nobel 332 00:15:36,306 --> 00:15:39,894 Peace Prize winner that have really had to 333 00:15:39,894 --> 00:15:42,466 battle Even when you have a strong force 334 00:15:42,466 --> 00:15:44,746 coming against you whether it's government 335 00:15:44,746 --> 00:15:45,914 or it's a religious institution or 336 00:15:45,914 --> 00:15:47,786 whatever you have to really I don't know 337 00:15:47,786 --> 00:15:49,114 be strengthened even more between stronger 338 00:15:49,114 --> 00:15:50,634 to break through So there's a lot of 339 00:15:50,634 --> 00:15:52,942 strong women that are in Iran and outside 340 00:15:52,942 --> 00:15:55,118 of I that are speaking out and being a 341 00:15:55,118 --> 00:15:57,054 voice for the Iranian people Yeah I find 342 00:15:57,054 --> 00:16:00,494 it very inspiring and I find that the more 343 00:16:00,494 --> 00:16:04,290 we highlight the stories of the strength 344 00:16:04,290 --> 00:16:07,362 the less we are into this sort of pity 345 00:16:07,362 --> 00:16:08,802 situation that these women need rescuing 346 00:16:08,802 --> 00:16:14,834 and the more we want to partner with them 347 00:16:14,834 --> 00:16:18,606 to let their voices be the ones that speak 348 00:16:18,606 --> 00:16:22,646 I was in Abu Dhabi in March for this 349 00:16:22,646 --> 00:16:24,086 conference.Forbes 30 under 30 and 50 over 350 00:16:24,086 --> 00:16:25,698 50 And I mean obviously being in Abu Dhabi 351 00:16:25,698 --> 00:16:29,298 in Dubai the just army. lot of incredible 352 00:16:29,298 --> 00:16:31,638 women both in that nation And that showed 353 00:16:31,638 --> 00:16:33,386 up because there were women getting awards 354 00:16:33,386 --> 00:16:34,586 Like Malala right who received an award 355 00:16:34,586 --> 00:16:37,174 for her You know having spoken with so 356 00:16:37,174 --> 00:16:39,318 many of the refugees coming out of 357 00:16:39,318 --> 00:16:41,102 Afghanistan to live here in the Bay Area 358 00:16:41,102 --> 00:16:43,594 because we have so many and sitting with 359 00:16:43,594 --> 00:16:50,062 them on the couches definitely their home 360 00:16:50,062 --> 00:16:52,014 and hearing about how educated they were 361 00:16:52,014 --> 00:16:54,682 the great work they were doing and then 362 00:16:54,682 --> 00:16:56,866 suddenly it was all gone.These are 363 00:16:56,866 --> 00:16:57,922 incredibly educated and strong and 364 00:16:57,922 --> 00:16:59,966 powerful women that I do think they're 365 00:16:59,966 --> 00:17:02,702 seen as a threat But I know that that 366 00:17:02,702 --> 00:17:06,338 connection that you just a by a strength 367 00:17:06,338 --> 00:17:07,606 needing to be shut down is something you 368 00:17:07,606 --> 00:17:10,946 experienced unfortunately both in your own 369 00:17:10,946 --> 00:17:15,366 home with your husband and from some 370 00:17:15,366 --> 00:17:17,094 Christian celebrity leaders in the 371 00:17:17,094 --> 00:17:19,018 Christian community So describe to us what 372 00:17:19,018 --> 00:17:20,246 it was like to be experiencing domestic 373 00:17:20,246 --> 00:17:23,420 violence from someone who was seen as a 374 00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:29,500 good guy a hero a Christian hero and how 375 00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:38,286 you were somehow seen as a threat when you 376 00:17:38,286 --> 00:17:40,206 tried to speak out About that came out 377 00:17:40,206 --> 00:17:44,770 about yeah My husband was I guess restrain 378 00:17:44,770 --> 00:17:49,154 lot of people found out about him around 379 00:17:49,154 --> 00:17:52,210 2012 2013 when I went to Media.He was 380 00:17:52,210 --> 00:17:54,594 having to who was in prison in Iran And at 381 00:17:54,594 --> 00:17:58,626 the time I came to Media about it which 382 00:17:58,626 --> 00:18:01,206 was my last option we had six months of 383 00:18:01,206 --> 00:18:03,446 working behind the scenes with the lawyers 384 00:18:03,446 --> 00:18:04,694 I worked with and trying to reach 385 00:18:04,694 --> 00:18:07,586 different governments that were friendly 386 00:18:07,586 --> 00:18:13,018 with Iran to try to get them. out But 387 00:18:13,018 --> 00:18:15,130 after six months we realized we couldn't 388 00:18:15,130 --> 00:18:18,858 We got to get it out on Media The person I 389 00:18:18,858 --> 00:18:21,786 a then was very much broken.I did not 390 00:18:21,786 --> 00:18:25,326 think I was strong My a had broken me to a 391 00:18:25,326 --> 00:18:27,726 point where I didn't trust my own judgment 392 00:18:27,726 --> 00:18:30,702 I didn't trust words that would come out 393 00:18:30,702 --> 00:18:34,654 of my mouth the way I thought the way I a 394 00:18:34,654 --> 00:18:38,482 the Bible the way I thought about God 395 00:18:38,482 --> 00:18:41,234 anything I thought was controlled by him 396 00:18:41,234 --> 00:18:45,862 And well are you sure I can say like close 397 00:18:45,862 --> 00:18:50,498 to no confidence about how I looked about 398 00:18:50,498 --> 00:18:53,654 what I said And so his time of 399 00:18:53,654 --> 00:18:55,906 imprisonment really gave me break from my 400 00:18:55,906 --> 00:18:58,098 abuser which I know a lot of people that 401 00:18:58,098 --> 00:19:00,762 come out of abuse When you a way, little 402 00:19:00,762 --> 00:19:04,474 bit of a break the fog starts lifting and 403 00:19:04,474 --> 00:19:07,958 you start realizing oh this is what under 404 00:19:07,958 --> 00:19:12,074 And so his imprisonment in Iran I was in 405 00:19:12,074 --> 00:19:13,834 America He had traveled to Iran and then 406 00:19:13,834 --> 00:19:16,254 he'd been arrested for his is faith.His 407 00:19:16,254 --> 00:19:18,126 imprisonment really gave me that break and 408 00:19:18,126 --> 00:19:20,430 to kind of start seeing things And towards 409 00:19:20,430 --> 00:19:22,910 the end of he had been in prison for three 410 00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:25,326 and a half years About almost year before 411 00:19:25,326 --> 00:19:31,458 he got released he got hold of a cell 412 00:19:31,458 --> 00:19:34,574 phone and he started messaging me from 413 00:19:34,574 --> 00:19:38,454 prison And here I was I traveled the world 414 00:19:38,454 --> 00:19:41,106 trying to get him out.I'd met with 415 00:19:41,106 --> 00:19:44,006 President Obama I had been called by Trump 416 00:19:44,006 --> 00:19:46,534 to his office He was just about to run for 417 00:19:46,534 --> 00:19:52,102 presidency and met with him I had been at 418 00:19:52,102 --> 00:19:56,042 the United Nations I was like literally 419 00:19:56,042 --> 00:20:00,478 doing everything I could to get him 420 00:20:00,478 --> 00:20:02,618 out.And here he gets a phone He sees that 421 00:20:02,618 --> 00:20:06,160 I am confident I'm not that weak person 422 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:13,026 that he had made me to be And he started 423 00:20:13,026 --> 00:20:17,858 calling me names from prison which was 424 00:20:17,858 --> 00:20:19,634 very confusing When you're trying to help 425 00:20:19,634 --> 00:20:22,494 someone out and they're calling you a 426 00:20:22,494 --> 00:20:24,498 whore or jezebel or you're nobody Don't 427 00:20:24,498 --> 00:20:27,126 think if anyone's clapping for you it's 428 00:20:27,126 --> 00:20:29,960 because of me it's not because of you.So 429 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,974 it was really confusing to me I couldn't 430 00:20:33,974 --> 00:20:37,974 understand it because I had little into no 431 00:20:37,974 --> 00:20:41,526 understanding of abuse And also I want to 432 00:20:41,526 --> 00:20:42,666 say the Christian culture contributed to 433 00:20:42,666 --> 00:20:45,258 that but I also want to say Middle East 434 00:20:45,258 --> 00:20:47,930 Sometimes as that woman in Middle East you 435 00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:54,814 are taught to put up with a lot in 436 00:20:54,814 --> 00:20:58,190 marriage and kind of learn that it's just 437 00:20:58,190 --> 00:21:00,106 marriage And of course I was deathly 438 00:21:00,106 --> 00:21:03,978 afraid of divorce as I know many people in 439 00:21:03,978 --> 00:21:05,378 from that region are.A lot of people 440 00:21:05,378 --> 00:21:08,606 outside of Middle East are But as a Middle 441 00:21:08,606 --> 00:21:12,434 Eastern an I know that's such a fear of 442 00:21:12,434 --> 00:21:16,510 having that mark of divorce on you And so 443 00:21:16,510 --> 00:21:18,418 I didn't really see an option out of my 444 00:21:18,418 --> 00:21:20,006 marriage But really God gave me the 445 00:21:20,006 --> 00:21:21,254 strength I became strong.God showed me the 446 00:21:21,254 --> 00:21:23,526 strength that he had built in me Because 447 00:21:23,526 --> 00:21:24,918 when my husband started calling me names I 448 00:21:24,918 --> 00:21:27,974 drew boundary And again at that time I 449 00:21:27,974 --> 00:21:31,766 didn't know it was abuse I said if you 450 00:21:31,766 --> 00:21:34,874 can't be nice to me don't call me from 451 00:21:34,874 --> 00:21:37,354 prison And he actually stopped calling me 452 00:21:37,354 --> 00:21:39,546 a which was really embarrassing because 453 00:21:39,546 --> 00:21:43,438 when the Americans were released from Iran 454 00:21:43,438 --> 00:21:46,494 American hostages I had every media at my 455 00:21:46,494 --> 00:21:50,222 house.I had Reuters I had NPR I had local 456 00:21:50,222 --> 00:21:53,986 and they're waiting for Said to call me 457 00:21:53,986 --> 00:21:57,010 And he's calling everyone else There's 458 00:21:57,010 --> 00:22:01,822 stuff popping up on media Like he just a 459 00:22:01,822 --> 00:22:04,914 Franklin a He just called Jay Seculo.And 460 00:22:04,914 --> 00:22:07,926 it was so as a his wife that had fought to 461 00:22:07,926 --> 00:22:13,046 get him out he did not So my first 462 00:22:13,046 --> 00:22:15,062 boundary was don't a me I didn't say don't 463 00:22:15,062 --> 00:22:20,258 call me I said if you can't be nice to me 464 00:22:20,258 --> 00:22:22,310 And he didn't like that.So no phone call 465 00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:27,082 at all And as the phone calls to I was so 466 00:22:27,082 --> 00:22:29,034 emotionally attached to him I was breaking 467 00:22:29,034 --> 00:22:31,254 down because there was a part of me that 468 00:22:31,254 --> 00:22:33,614 just really wanted to call him back and 469 00:22:33,614 --> 00:22:36,398 really talk to him And so Iran just kind 470 00:22:36,398 --> 00:22:39,086 of threw up in front of this pastor I was 471 00:22:39,086 --> 00:22:41,054 speaking at a church and I was really 472 00:22:41,054 --> 00:22:45,458 struggling.I hadn't talked to Said for a 473 00:22:45,458 --> 00:22:48,786 week I had drawn my first boundary I felt 474 00:22:48,786 --> 00:22:53,554 guilty about it He's in prison Why did I 475 00:22:53,554 --> 00:22:57,138 tell him not to call back And so I just 476 00:22:57,138 --> 00:22:59,046 kind of threw up in front of this pastor 477 00:22:59,046 --> 00:23:02,774 Not throw up throw up But I was like I was 478 00:23:02,774 --> 00:23:06,214 like I don't know what to do And here's my 479 00:23:06,214 --> 00:23:07,960 phone He's sending me all these 480 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:15,334 messages.And I was like this is how he's 481 00:23:15,334 --> 00:23:17,434 it's been from the beginning of our 482 00:23:17,434 --> 00:23:20,422 marriage I just kind of told him 483 00:23:20,422 --> 00:23:24,926 everything And gave lot of times in every 484 00:23:24,926 --> 00:23:25,966 culture when something a in your marriage 485 00:23:25,966 --> 00:23:28,206 you don't tell even your parents because 486 00:23:28,206 --> 00:23:29,406 you think if our relationship mends then 487 00:23:29,406 --> 00:23:32,462 the still going to hate everything I had 488 00:23:32,462 --> 00:23:35,310 not told I just told this pastor.I just 489 00:23:35,310 --> 00:23:37,746 gave him everything And I knew this pastor 490 00:23:37,746 --> 00:23:39,906 Loved said he had called Said a hero And 491 00:23:39,906 --> 00:23:42,994 so his pastor was really shocked But he 492 00:23:42,994 --> 00:23:45,778 gave me break diagnosis He said this is 493 00:23:45,778 --> 00:23:49,334 really shocking.Say it's towards hero And 494 00:23:49,334 --> 00:23:51,126 he said but you're an abused wife And so 495 00:23:51,126 --> 00:23:55,734 when I got that a I read a lot of I just 496 00:23:55,734 --> 00:23:57,746 ordered my whole world blew up because I 497 00:23:57,746 --> 00:23:59,574 realized wow this prison. not like a 498 00:23:59,574 --> 00:24:01,226 normal problem in a relationship like a 499 00:24:01,226 --> 00:24:03,798 headache where you take Advil or Tylenol 500 00:24:03,798 --> 00:24:05,866 This is like cancer that needs to go 501 00:24:05,866 --> 00:24:07,514 through chemo This is not about normal 502 00:24:07,514 --> 00:24:11,018 marriage issue.And so I studied a lot 503 00:24:11,018 --> 00:24:12,398 about Narcissism That's the first time I 504 00:24:12,398 --> 00:24:15,566 heard about the word about abuse And so I 505 00:24:15,566 --> 00:24:19,806 shared with a small group of people like I 506 00:24:19,806 --> 00:24:23,034 emailed and I said I think I'm an abused 507 00:24:23,034 --> 00:24:25,554 wife might have been throughout our 508 00:24:25,554 --> 00:24:28,766 marriage And within hours I had every me 509 00:24:28,766 --> 00:24:31,026 calling me It was leaked to media and said 510 00:24:31,026 --> 00:24:32,994 was still in prison at that time.And one 511 00:24:32,994 --> 00:24:37,906 of the bullies that called me and told me 512 00:24:37,906 --> 00:24:40,214 to be quiet was Franklin Graham And he 513 00:24:40,214 --> 00:24:41,926 really didn't want the story to get out He 514 00:24:41,926 --> 00:24:44,118 said it would damage the cause of 515 00:24:44,118 --> 00:24:46,822 Christianity and that my husband was a 516 00:24:46,822 --> 00:24:51,658 hero understanding that if I was quiet I 517 00:24:51,658 --> 00:24:54,346 was going to have so much I could have so 518 00:24:54,346 --> 00:24:58,838 much fame and money and ministry But at a 519 00:24:58,838 --> 00:25:01,678 time I saw it for what it was and it seems 520 00:25:01,678 --> 00:25:05,440 like that I acted foolishly and I tore 521 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,126 everything down I really lost 522 00:25:08,126 --> 00:25:09,566 everything.But actually it was the best 523 00:25:09,566 --> 00:25:12,926 thing that happened to us We became free 524 00:25:12,926 --> 00:25:14,302 from that lot of that celebrity Christian 525 00:25:14,302 --> 00:25:16,090 culture My children became free of it and 526 00:25:16,090 --> 00:25:19,394 we went back to a normal life which a so 527 00:25:19,394 --> 00:25:21,570 good for me and the children.I've read 528 00:25:21,570 --> 00:25:23,218 your story I've heard your story You 529 00:25:23,218 --> 00:25:26,934 shared this also in your book and you 530 00:25:26,934 --> 00:25:29,430 shared it on the stage at Restore 531 00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:31,286 conference And every me the part about 532 00:25:31,286 --> 00:25:34,534 Franklin Graham comes just I don't know 533 00:25:34,534 --> 00:25:37,554 him But hey Franklin if you're listening 534 00:25:37,554 --> 00:25:39,526 to this podcast you owe that repair to my 535 00:25:39,526 --> 00:25:41,354 friend Nagme because it's so inappropriate 536 00:25:41,354 --> 00:25:43,594 what he and it's I wish it were the only 537 00:25:43,594 --> 00:25:45,926 story I'd ever he similar stopped this but 538 00:25:45,926 --> 00:25:47,994 altogether, darvo situation where they 539 00:25:47,994 --> 00:25:52,590 victim blame and this is part of the 540 00:25:52,590 --> 00:25:56,638 culture at large in the United at is but 541 00:25:56,638 --> 00:25:58,586 it's extremely powerful in celebrity 542 00:25:58,586 --> 00:26:01,098 church culture and domestic violence is 543 00:26:01,098 --> 00:26:02,862 often covered up and women are blamed and 544 00:26:02,862 --> 00:26:06,466 women are told to just suck it up and go 545 00:26:06,466 --> 00:26:10,158 back to the marriage and be quiet In your 546 00:26:10,158 --> 00:26:12,814 case your speaking out so Was.Going to and 547 00:26:12,814 --> 00:26:14,466 maybe Franklin's perspective affect him 548 00:26:14,466 --> 00:26:17,026 somehow but how dare he center himself 549 00:26:17,026 --> 00:26:19,366 when you are the one that needed care And 550 00:26:19,366 --> 00:26:20,706 so I once again don't know if Franklin 551 00:26:20,706 --> 00:26:22,534 listens to this podcast or if any of you 552 00:26:22,534 --> 00:26:25,622 listening have the ear of Franklin Graham 553 00:26:25,622 --> 00:26:29,062 but he owes Nagme calls serious repair and 554 00:26:29,062 --> 00:26:32,214 reparations for what he did to her and her 555 00:26:32,214 --> 00:26:33,546 family Because that's a for anyone but 556 00:26:33,546 --> 00:26:34,666 especially somebody who claims to follow 557 00:26:34,666 --> 00:26:37,002 Christ and to be talk leader in this 558 00:26:37,002 --> 00:26:38,586 community And I'm just so heartbroken with 559 00:26:38,586 --> 00:26:40,586 you that at a time you Needed people to 560 00:26:40,586 --> 00:26:42,678 believe you and surround you and care for 561 00:26:42,678 --> 00:26:44,906 you.Instead they were making you into the 562 00:26:44,906 --> 00:26:46,586 villain And so from that experience what 563 00:26:46,586 --> 00:26:48,926 did you learn from that How are you 564 00:26:48,926 --> 00:26:49,934 processing that now That was pretty 565 00:26:49,934 --> 00:26:51,726 traumatic because Franklin was just not a 566 00:26:51,726 --> 00:26:53,166 big name like Billy Graham's son He had 567 00:26:53,166 --> 00:26:54,158 become a really good friend.He would often 568 00:26:54,158 --> 00:26:56,866 send his private jet and he would take me 569 00:26:56,866 --> 00:26:59,746 to the Billy Graham center to speak or to 570 00:26:59,746 --> 00:27:02,706 the Samaritan's purse And he really turned 571 00:27:02,706 --> 00:27:04,706 on me in an unexpected and he actually his 572 00:27:04,706 --> 00:27:07,174 first accusation at me was that I was an 573 00:27:07,174 --> 00:27:10,354 adulteress that in some way I was throwing 574 00:27:10,354 --> 00:27:12,594 said under the bus because I was cheating 575 00:27:12,594 --> 00:27:15,846 don't him and I was wanting to move on 576 00:27:15,846 --> 00:27:17,718 with another person It's so outrageous 577 00:27:17,718 --> 00:27:24,554 which was so crazy And it broke me and I 578 00:27:24,554 --> 00:27:28,346 just cried I was like why would you say I 579 00:27:28,346 --> 00:27:29,946 committed adultery And interesting enough 580 00:27:29,946 --> 00:27:32,026 recently and over the a I've wanted a 581 00:27:32,026 --> 00:27:34,654 friendship So what I share about Franklin 582 00:27:34,654 --> 00:27:37,226 is like seven years out It's not like he 583 00:27:37,226 --> 00:27:39,866 did this And then I was like I was quiet I 584 00:27:39,866 --> 00:27:42,382 kept privately messaging him like hey you 585 00:27:42,382 --> 00:27:44,994 really have picked the wrong yeah I know 586 00:27:44,994 --> 00:27:47,822 you don't like let's try to get you to 587 00:27:47,822 --> 00:27:49,314 understand.His sister and Graham lots 588 00:27:49,314 --> 00:27:52,898 tried to explain things to him And then 589 00:27:52,898 --> 00:27:56,306 recently I think about take year ago the 590 00:27:56,306 --> 00:27:57,666 Washington posted a story on this whole 591 00:27:57,666 --> 00:27:59,158 Franklin Graham thing And what surprised 592 00:27:59,158 --> 00:28:03,846 me the most was he doubled down and he 593 00:28:03,846 --> 00:28:06,022 said yes I called her an adulteress and 594 00:28:06,022 --> 00:28:13,674 yes I would do it again And I was like you 595 00:28:13,674 --> 00:28:15,946 could have said like I learned my lesson I 596 00:28:15,946 --> 00:28:17,046 understand abuse more now.I've seen how 597 00:28:17,046 --> 00:28:20,410 things have played out in the last six 598 00:28:20,410 --> 00:28:23,614 seven years No I just didn't know better 599 00:28:23,614 --> 00:28:27,006 But for him to double down was so if 600 00:28:27,006 --> 00:28:30,126 there's any part of him that ever repents 601 00:28:30,126 --> 00:28:31,838 and wants to step into being and advocate 602 00:28:31,838 --> 00:28:36,562 for the abuse that would be wonderful I am 603 00:28:36,562 --> 00:28:38,386 really in I would love to have him use his 604 00:28:38,386 --> 00:28:40,980 voice instead of suppressing the abused to 605 00:28:40,980 --> 00:28:47,086 lift them up husband to give him the 606 00:28:47,086 --> 00:28:48,838 platform that he has.I would love for 607 00:28:48,838 --> 00:28:51,526 Franklin Graham to give the platform that 608 00:28:51,526 --> 00:28:55,750 he has for abused women and those who've 609 00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:57,446 been abused by the church to speak and 610 00:28:57,446 --> 00:28:59,980 bring awareness and teach the church 611 00:28:59,980 --> 00:29:04,010 There's so much the abuse can teach the 612 00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:07,066 church Yeah anytime he wants to do that 613 00:29:07,066 --> 00:29:08,986 that would be I'm open I don't think he 614 00:29:08,986 --> 00:29:13,766 likes became right now but I do like him I 615 00:29:13,766 --> 00:29:18,870 don't like him but I don't hate him.People 616 00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:21,134 think I came out a I have like this I 617 00:29:21,134 --> 00:29:27,986 don't hate him I'm not mad at him but I 618 00:29:27,986 --> 00:29:30,834 would love for him to repent of the way he 619 00:29:30,834 --> 00:29:32,046 thinks That's actually his way of thinking 620 00:29:32,046 --> 00:29:35,566 is Harming the and I mean you know we have 621 00:29:35,566 --> 00:29:37,894 Franklin the scriptures that we hold dear 622 00:29:37,894 --> 00:29:39,922 the story of Zacchaeus He went and made it 623 00:29:39,922 --> 00:29:42,806 gave he made a when he realized.And so any 624 00:29:42,806 --> 00:29:47,206 day we wake up is a chance to realize we 625 00:29:47,206 --> 00:29:50,442 were wrong and to go and make it right And 626 00:29:50,442 --> 00:29:56,026 that's what we are called to do And I do 627 00:29:56,026 --> 00:29:57,786 hope he finds that moment But I love that 628 00:29:57,786 --> 00:30:02,266 in your heart whether or not that ever 629 00:30:02,266 --> 00:30:08,510 happens you can move on and you can move 630 00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:11,246 forward by moving forward You are an 631 00:30:11,246 --> 00:30:12,206 amazing strong smart articulate strong 632 00:30:12,206 --> 00:30:13,346 with ancestors who are strong.And I just 633 00:30:13,346 --> 00:30:16,434 think that it is so beautiful to see the 634 00:30:16,434 --> 00:30:23,278 beauty from the ashes that has come But at 635 00:30:23,278 --> 00:30:26,530 the same time there's a part of you that 636 00:30:26,530 --> 00:30:29,106 didn't really survive And that's why you 637 00:30:29,106 --> 00:30:31,170 titled your book this way talk about how 638 00:30:31,170 --> 00:30:32,726 you settled on that title and really kind 639 00:30:32,726 --> 00:30:34,646 of what it means to you Yeah I didn't 640 00:30:34,646 --> 00:30:38,690 survive I look at he person I a had to let 641 00:30:38,690 --> 00:30:41,034 go of what lot of my way of thinking of 642 00:30:41,034 --> 00:30:44,058 whether it came from my culture.Having 643 00:30:44,058 --> 00:30:46,186 been raised the first nine years of my 644 00:30:46,186 --> 00:30:48,186 life in a Islamic revolution culture where 645 00:30:48,186 --> 00:30:50,106 women were being shut down and women were 646 00:30:50,106 --> 00:30:51,834 being told that they cannot do certain 647 00:30:51,834 --> 00:30:53,134 things whether the Christian culture that 648 00:30:53,134 --> 00:30:58,254 also said I was to submit And I was to be 649 00:30:58,254 --> 00:31:01,646 a helper And I was to have a quiet and 650 00:31:01,646 --> 00:31:04,542 peaceful spirit and never speak up or be 651 00:31:04,542 --> 00:31:07,650 loud or try to tell men what to do And 652 00:31:07,650 --> 00:31:10,514 that's the culture I was raised in And it 653 00:31:10,514 --> 00:31:13,074 actually worked perfectly with my Middle 654 00:31:13,074 --> 00:31:15,206 Eastern culture.I was like oh really God 655 00:31:15,206 --> 00:31:17,494 had to break me free from all of that 656 00:31:17,494 --> 00:31:20,534 wrong understanding God values women God 657 00:31:20,534 --> 00:31:24,454 he equal I think they're more honored You 658 00:31:24,454 --> 00:31:27,766 see him honoring woman in such at way.You 659 00:31:27,766 --> 00:31:29,206 see Jesus giving great revelations of 660 00:31:29,206 --> 00:31:31,306 worship to the woman by the well to these 661 00:31:31,306 --> 00:31:34,058 women that were there at his grave at his 662 00:31:34,058 --> 00:31:36,678 tomb the revelation of his on I mean I 663 00:31:36,678 --> 00:31:40,426 think he actually played was little bit of 664 00:31:40,426 --> 00:31:42,134 it in the way he honored women in was 665 00:31:42,134 --> 00:31:44,554 culture middle Eastern culture those who 666 00:31:44,554 --> 00:31:47,966 understand understand where women eat in 667 00:31:47,966 --> 00:31:49,790 and different room they sit in a different 668 00:31:49,790 --> 00:31:52,094 room For him to be with them in the same 669 00:31:52,094 --> 00:31:54,386 room and to honor he and talk to them and 670 00:31:54,386 --> 00:31:56,466 have theological discussions about worship 671 00:31:56,466 --> 00:31:59,746 with them.That's not who God is And the 672 00:31:59,746 --> 00:32:02,910 old me didn't survive There was a new me 673 00:32:02,910 --> 00:32:04,994 that emerged from that rediscovering and 674 00:32:04,994 --> 00:32:07,326 understanding who God really sister not 675 00:32:07,326 --> 00:32:11,382 what I was to And seeing how much he 676 00:32:11,382 --> 00:32:13,078 empowered me to be about voice he wasn't 677 00:32:13,078 --> 00:32:16,098 trying Washington shut me down and say you 678 00:32:16,098 --> 00:32:18,582 just need to be what little more gentle 679 00:32:18,582 --> 00:32:21,482 and was little more soft which it's good 680 00:32:21,482 --> 00:32:23,546 for us to be But speaking out about 681 00:32:23,546 --> 00:32:24,746 injustice and speaking out about abuse or 682 00:32:24,746 --> 00:32:26,810 not submitting to abuse doesn't mean we're 683 00:32:26,810 --> 00:32:30,226 not that we're not gentle.But there's 684 00:32:30,226 --> 00:32:32,586 abuse time where you are supposed to speak 685 00:32:32,586 --> 00:32:36,606 out and in to any form of abuse or 686 00:32:36,606 --> 00:32:38,398 corruption or actually doesn't honor God 687 00:32:38,398 --> 00:32:42,782 at all And that was the understanding So I 688 00:32:42,782 --> 00:32:46,770 kind of through the cocoon of suffering I 689 00:32:46,770 --> 00:32:49,134 turned to a different creature an 690 00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:51,970 butterfly.And I also had to trust in the 691 00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:54,754 abilities God had given me to fly to move 692 00:32:54,754 --> 00:32:59,154 forward and not second guess and say am I 693 00:32:59,154 --> 00:33:01,126 crazy Do I really have the ability to 694 00:33:01,126 --> 00:33:03,062 think properly or convey ideas properly 695 00:33:03,062 --> 00:33:05,238 Which was like how my husband had shut me 696 00:33:05,238 --> 00:33:07,826 down I didn't even trust in my own 697 00:33:07,826 --> 00:33:10,522 emotions If I cried the would say you're 698 00:33:10,522 --> 00:33:13,546 trying to manipulate.And I was like am I 699 00:33:13,546 --> 00:33:16,682 trying to manipulate But I'm really sad So 700 00:33:16,682 --> 00:33:18,874 he wouldn't even let me be sad He was 701 00:33:18,874 --> 00:33:21,030 saying by my tears I was trying to 702 00:33:21,030 --> 00:33:23,120 manipulate other people around me or him 703 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,066 So it was like even questioning my own 704 00:33:27,066 --> 00:33:28,958 emotion That's how far I gotten where I 705 00:33:28,958 --> 00:33:32,506 couldn't show any emotion.I didn't survive 706 00:33:32,506 --> 00:33:34,206 I really didn't.But I didn't survive in a 707 00:33:34,206 --> 00:33:36,434 good way The old me the bound me died and 708 00:33:36,434 --> 00:33:39,374 I was set free So beautiful and so much 709 00:33:39,374 --> 00:33:41,874 hope I know that there are people 710 00:33:41,874 --> 00:33:43,762 listening to this who currently are 711 00:33:43,762 --> 00:33:45,614 experiencing abuse and maybe even domestic 712 00:33:45,614 --> 00:33:48,694 violence I know that emotional abuse is he 713 00:33:48,694 --> 00:33:52,806 kind that gets in your head.Having been 714 00:33:52,806 --> 00:33:54,674 one who experienced that at the a of a 715 00:33:54,674 --> 00:33:56,294 couple of celebrity pastors and behind 716 00:33:56,294 --> 00:33:58,246 closed doors in ways that he said she said 717 00:33:58,246 --> 00:33:59,926 And so who's going to be believed The one 718 00:33:59,926 --> 00:34:03,834 with the bigger platform And so when you 719 00:34:03,834 --> 00:34:05,898 have those power dynamics men women that 720 00:34:05,898 --> 00:34:07,434 power dynamic and then your and being seen 721 00:34:07,434 --> 00:34:13,198 as this big deal that people are trying to 722 00:34:13,198 --> 00:34:18,814 rescue him from all over the world and 723 00:34:18,814 --> 00:34:22,846 then the power dynamic of you just being a 724 00:34:22,846 --> 00:34:25,514 woman and being his wife like very 725 00:34:25,514 --> 00:34:27,602 different dynamic that can play into that 726 00:34:27,602 --> 00:34:30,766 And so there's a people listening I'm sure 727 00:34:30,766 --> 00:34:32,366 even women who might be being abused 728 00:34:32,366 --> 00:34:34,226 either in an Islamic context or in a 729 00:34:34,226 --> 00:34:35,678 Christian context or any context what 730 00:34:35,678 --> 00:34:37,080 would you say to that woman listening 731 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:43,526 right now that doesn't know how to get 732 00:34:43,526 --> 00:34:44,966 free.Or doesn't even know they might be 733 00:34:44,966 --> 00:34:47,174 Because probably I recently read a book 734 00:34:47,174 --> 00:34:51,146 called about your body Keeps Yeah I've 735 00:34:51,146 --> 00:34:56,154 read that Like that Yeah.Your body starts 736 00:34:56,154 --> 00:34:57,882 telling you something's wrong you are down 737 00:34:57,882 --> 00:35:00,614 you're depressed There's anxiety even 738 00:35:00,614 --> 00:35:04,094 before you can put the word abuse to it If 739 00:35:04,094 --> 00:35:08,142 it's not physical of course physical 740 00:35:08,142 --> 00:35:09,582 anything physical Christian definitely 741 00:35:09,582 --> 00:35:11,274 abuse Unfortunately having been raised in 742 00:35:11,274 --> 00:35:14,180 a lot of the Middle Eastern culture even 743 00:35:14,180 --> 00:35:16,094 that was questionable But physical for 744 00:35:16,094 --> 00:35:18,562 sure.But emotional psychological is so 745 00:35:18,562 --> 00:35:21,954 hard to see So the abuser's goal is to 746 00:35:21,954 --> 00:35:24,466 control you And so they might use 747 00:35:24,466 --> 00:35:25,894 emotional abuse verbal abuse The Bible as 748 00:35:25,894 --> 00:35:28,950 a Christian the Bible says our words have 749 00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:37,834 the power to kill or bring life So as 750 00:35:37,834 --> 00:35:39,530 Christians we should really give value to 751 00:35:39,530 --> 00:35:45,286 verbal abuse.That's a big deal We 752 00:35:45,286 --> 00:35:51,094 shouldn't be like oh that was just verbal 753 00:35:51,094 --> 00:35:52,974 abuse Because the Bible says it brings 754 00:35:52,974 --> 00:35:56,110 life or death emotional abuse 755 00:35:56,110 --> 00:35:58,446 psychological abuse and using religion 756 00:35:58,446 --> 00:36:01,102 like God to have you submit in spiritual 757 00:36:01,102 --> 00:36:04,846 abuse And so I know that as a Christian 758 00:36:04,846 --> 00:36:06,810 those institutions of marriage or church 759 00:36:06,810 --> 00:36:09,826 were put there to protect and nourish and 760 00:36:09,826 --> 00:36:13,730 nurture and actually help you fly he you 761 00:36:13,730 --> 00:36:17,538 be the best person you can be and not to 762 00:36:17,538 --> 00:36:19,974 squash you and confuse you a cause all 763 00:36:19,974 --> 00:36:23,174 this darkness to come over you So if any 764 00:36:23,174 --> 00:36:24,758 institution whether it's a marriage or 765 00:36:24,758 --> 00:36:26,934 work or religious institution or church 766 00:36:26,934 --> 00:36:29,014 that's not helping you thrive.It's 767 00:36:29,014 --> 00:36:35,034 actually you feel like you're dying inside 768 00:36:35,034 --> 00:36:37,654 You feel this confusion God is not God of 769 00:36:37,654 --> 00:36:39,242 confusion You feel this darkness You're 770 00:36:39,242 --> 00:36:43,054 just really like you maybe repeat to 771 00:36:43,054 --> 00:36:48,126 yourself like I just want to I wish I was 772 00:36:48,126 --> 00:36:51,934 just not alive This feeling despair then 773 00:36:51,934 --> 00:36:53,786 there's something wrong and you need to 774 00:36:53,786 --> 00:36:55,358 get out of that institution And God cares 775 00:36:55,358 --> 00:36:56,706 more about you than you trying to keep 776 00:36:56,706 --> 00:36:58,786 that institution intact So whether it's 777 00:36:58,786 --> 00:37:01,874 things coming out in a church or in a 778 00:37:01,874 --> 00:37:04,046 religious environment or in abuse home and 779 00:37:04,046 --> 00:37:06,338 you're like well if this comes out then 780 00:37:06,338 --> 00:37:09,574 the marriage is going to a apart it's okay 781 00:37:09,574 --> 00:37:11,794 The person's more important.You are more 782 00:37:11,794 --> 00:37:14,578 important than the institution And as a 783 00:37:14,578 --> 00:37:18,346 know I believe God came to save the person 784 00:37:18,346 --> 00:37:20,474 Jesus came to save the person not an.I 785 00:37:20,474 --> 00:37:23,946 think your body starts feeling things even 786 00:37:23,946 --> 00:37:29,942 before you can put the word abuse to it 787 00:37:29,942 --> 00:37:34,574 And you're not in You're not being the 788 00:37:34,574 --> 00:37:38,622 best that you can be that God created you 789 00:37:38,622 --> 00:37:42,414 to be You're actually being kind of pushed 790 00:37:42,414 --> 00:37:45,466 down and you feel fog of confusion and 791 00:37:45,466 --> 00:37:49,486 darkness and you don't know what it is And 792 00:37:49,486 --> 00:37:52,002 you're like Am I crazy I this real God is 793 00:37:52,002 --> 00:37:54,606 God of clarity So I would say if there's 794 00:37:54,606 --> 00:37:56,834 any of that going on if someone would have 795 00:37:56,834 --> 00:37:59,606 said if any of that's going on in your 796 00:37:59,606 --> 00:38:01,686 mind nogma look into abuse look up that 797 00:38:01,686 --> 00:38:03,794 word and see if that's what you're under I 798 00:38:03,794 --> 00:38:06,438 would start with that I would tell people 799 00:38:06,438 --> 00:38:09,574 that that's so good Yeah.There is so much 800 00:38:09,574 --> 00:38:11,882 more research now on the brain and how our 801 00:38:11,882 --> 00:38:21,262 right brain is perceiving a lot of that 802 00:38:21,262 --> 00:38:23,102 before we're cognitively aware of it in 803 00:38:23,102 --> 00:38:29,134 the other side of the left brain And so it 804 00:38:29,134 --> 00:38:33,042 is our body taking in all those messages 805 00:38:33,042 --> 00:38:34,098 our autonomic nervous systems are 806 00:38:34,098 --> 00:38:37,250 responding to Is this person emotionally 807 00:38:37,250 --> 00:38:40,814 safe based on every other interaction I've 808 00:38:40,814 --> 00:38:44,546 had with them And our bodies are keeping 809 00:38:44,546 --> 00:38:46,642 that data so we're not fully cognizant of 810 00:38:46,642 --> 00:38:48,262 it And I think that why paying attention 811 00:38:48,262 --> 00:38:50,662 to our bodies is so important.It's and 812 00:38:50,662 --> 00:38:52,806 message we don't give often in 813 00:38:52,806 --> 00:38:56,038 evangelicalism In fact we say the opposite 814 00:38:56,038 --> 00:38:57,398 Don't trust your body When women's bodies 815 00:38:57,398 --> 00:38:58,918 are a threat you're constantly having 816 00:38:58,918 --> 00:39:02,534 these weird messages and so I think it is 817 00:39:02,534 --> 00:39:04,634 more challenging in those situations Or 818 00:39:04,634 --> 00:39:06,538 like you said in Islam where cover up your 819 00:39:06,538 --> 00:39:08,202 body.It's like an attempt man There's the 820 00:39:08,202 --> 00:39:10,282 nine parts of desire So that's really good 821 00:39:10,282 --> 00:39:12,506 advice And the last thing I want to give 822 00:39:12,506 --> 00:39:15,294 you an opportunity to speak to is what if 823 00:39:15,294 --> 00:39:17,390 there's a pastor in a church a congregant 824 00:39:17,390 --> 00:39:19,600 anybody in a church position where 825 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,694 somebody comes out and says either my a 826 00:39:22,694 --> 00:39:26,274 abusing me the pastor is abusing me Any 827 00:39:26,274 --> 00:39:28,514 forms of abuse whether it's emotional 828 00:39:28,514 --> 00:39:30,578 financial verbal physical sexual anything 829 00:39:30,578 --> 00:39:36,254 what would you say to that person in a 830 00:39:36,254 --> 00:39:39,734 church environment when they've been 831 00:39:39,734 --> 00:39:43,922 taught to just always believe the people 832 00:39:43,922 --> 00:39:48,538 in power Yeah be careful that you're not 833 00:39:48,538 --> 00:39:51,914 trying to save the power or the 834 00:39:51,914 --> 00:39:54,102 institution because that's anti biblical 835 00:39:54,102 --> 00:39:57,386 So anxiety lot of times pastors won't 836 00:39:57,386 --> 00:39:59,114 touch a marriage Even though the woman's 837 00:39:59,114 --> 00:40:01,614 like I'm being abused they're like because 838 00:40:01,614 --> 00:40:05,758 they're like I don't want this marriage to 839 00:40:05,758 --> 00:40:08,970 a apart That's not your job Your job is to 840 00:40:08,970 --> 00:40:11,754 rescue the person that's claiming abuse 841 00:40:11,754 --> 00:40:14,266 which it's very rare for someone to 842 00:40:14,266 --> 00:40:17,426 falsely claim abuser's because it is very 843 00:40:17,426 --> 00:40:18,962 know.I remember when Lorianne Thompson 844 00:40:18,962 --> 00:40:23,106 first came out about it and I went to my 845 00:40:23,106 --> 00:40:25,314 church and I said I don't want any ravi's 846 00:40:25,314 --> 00:40:28,034 teachings here anymore And they're like 847 00:40:28,034 --> 00:40:32,306 Why And I was like this woman's coming out 848 00:40:32,306 --> 00:40:34,214 about it They're like oh they're saying 849 00:40:34,214 --> 00:40:36,374 she's lying It's just why would someone 850 00:40:36,374 --> 00:40:39,078 lie and have their whole life torn apart 851 00:40:39,078 --> 00:40:41,450 and destroyed and their livelihood taken 852 00:40:41,450 --> 00:40:46,854 It is so rare for someone to come out 853 00:40:46,854 --> 00:40:51,774 about abuse. especially about a person in 854 00:40:51,774 --> 00:40:56,814 power or in a marriage where their 855 00:40:56,814 --> 00:41:00,974 marriage would fall apart and just going 856 00:41:00,974 --> 00:41:04,622 through that pain of children custody So I 857 00:41:04,622 --> 00:41:06,946 would say don't jump into conclusion First 858 00:41:06,946 --> 00:41:09,842 of all listen to the one who's claiming 859 00:41:09,842 --> 00:41:13,554 abuse Let it get them to a place of safety 860 00:41:13,554 --> 00:41:15,986 And don't try to worry about whether 861 00:41:15,986 --> 00:41:19,954 institution.What will happen if this news 862 00:41:19,954 --> 00:41:25,222 comes out to the church Your job is not to 863 00:41:25,222 --> 00:41:28,390 keep an institution intact or the marriage 864 00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:31,434 intact Your job especially as is we're 865 00:41:31,434 --> 00:41:34,330 called we are to protect the voiceless the 866 00:41:34,330 --> 00:41:36,602 innocent the oppressed Your job is to 867 00:41:36,602 --> 00:41:38,198 protect them Now if the church falls to 868 00:41:38,198 --> 00:41:39,914 pieces that's between it's.God is not 869 00:41:39,914 --> 00:41:42,858 worried about the church falling into 870 00:41:42,858 --> 00:41:44,206 pieces or marriage falling to pieces God 871 00:41:44,206 --> 00:41:46,302 is worried about god is concerned of 872 00:41:46,302 --> 00:41:48,282 rescuing the person So if you want to 873 00:41:48,282 --> 00:41:51,166 honor God go rescue the person Be out in 874 00:41:51,166 --> 00:41:56,146 the person If in is preventing you from in 875 00:41:56,146 --> 00:41:57,954 to this person and helping them really 876 00:41:57,954 --> 00:41:59,346 seek really think about why.Is it because 877 00:41:59,346 --> 00:42:01,934 you're so afraid of the institution being 878 00:42:01,934 --> 00:42:03,890 affected by it whether marriage more 879 00:42:03,890 --> 00:42:07,046 church So if that's where you're going be 880 00:42:07,046 --> 00:42:08,630 careful You might be following the steps 881 00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:10,070 of pharisees and religious leaders that 882 00:42:10,070 --> 00:42:18,918 Jesus rebuked because they were so 883 00:42:18,918 --> 00:42:21,062 concerned about protecting the institution 884 00:42:21,062 --> 00:42:22,634 of Sabbath that they were like oh 885 00:42:22,634 --> 00:42:25,274 someone's it's like we don't want to help 886 00:42:25,274 --> 00:42:27,402 to God's like are you kidding Like the 887 00:42:27,402 --> 00:42:29,690 institution was set there for the person 888 00:42:29,690 --> 00:42:31,866 It's always about helping the person.Yes 889 00:42:31,866 --> 00:42:34,358 And if somehow you're walking by darkness 890 00:42:34,358 --> 00:42:35,694 broken person and you're not helping them 891 00:42:35,694 --> 00:42:37,374 be careful that you're not the religious 892 00:42:37,374 --> 00:42:40,606 leaders that Jesus called out that is so 893 00:42:40,606 --> 00:42:41,726 concerned about the institution that 894 00:42:41,726 --> 00:42:43,086 they're willing to see someone waste away 895 00:42:43,086 --> 00:42:44,654 whether in said church So that's what I 896 00:42:44,654 --> 00:42:47,794 would say to pastors be careful Make sure 897 00:42:47,794 --> 00:42:49,026 you're not so concerned about the 898 00:42:49,026 --> 00:42:49,938 institution whether it's marriage or 899 00:42:49,938 --> 00:42:51,074 someone claiming abuse by that. religious 900 00:42:51,074 --> 00:42:55,906 leader and really do the call that God has 901 00:42:55,906 --> 00:42:57,982 called you to do which to protect the 902 00:42:57,982 --> 00:43:00,786 press And it might be costly.It might 903 00:43:00,786 --> 00:43:03,158 require you to lay down your life and you 904 00:43:03,158 --> 00:43:05,138 to lose in Well pet Well pet Yeah people 905 00:43:05,138 --> 00:43:07,766 first I mean it hard at times but it's 906 00:43:07,766 --> 00:43:11,186 kind of simple at the same time.So thank 907 00:43:11,186 --> 00:43:13,546 you for that Well how can people find you 908 00:43:13,546 --> 00:43:15,178 and your book and your writing and your 909 00:43:15,178 --> 00:43:18,406 speaking and reach out to you if they want 910 00:43:18,406 --> 00:43:20,074 you to come Just someone actually did this 911 00:43:20,074 --> 00:43:23,626 for me Someone just did a website for me 912 00:43:23,626 --> 00:43:26,318 that a all my information and the work I 913 00:43:26,318 --> 00:43:28,174 do in the Middle East It's nagmepanahi.com 914 00:43:28,174 --> 00:43:31,658 perfect Or they can search my name a they 915 00:43:31,658 --> 00:43:33,598 will find information My social media.Yeah 916 00:43:33,598 --> 00:43:35,666 We'll link that think the show notes for 917 00:43:35,666 --> 00:43:38,338 people to find you Thank you so much for 918 00:43:38,338 --> 00:43:40,594 being on today It's been a true honor for 919 00:43:40,594 --> 00:43:43,122 me to get to know you to start our 920 00:43:43,122 --> 00:43:47,474 friendship and also just to introduce all 921 00:43:47,474 --> 00:43:48,966 these listeners to who you are really 922 00:43:48,966 --> 00:43:50,694 Thank you for being so vulnerable today 923 00:43:50,694 --> 00:43:53,718 both in your writing and a you 924 00:43:53,718 --> 00:43:56,454 shared.Thank you Lori I appreciate you and 925 00:43:56,454 --> 00:43:58,598 I appreciate this connection God has had 926 00:43:58,598 --> 00:44:00,682 abusing have Thanks for being here Nagme 927 00:44:00,682 --> 00:44:02,278 Bye Thank you.Bye undefined undefined 928 00:44:02,278 --> 00:44:05,862 undefined undefined undefined undefined 929 00:44:05,862 --> 00:44:07,466 undefined undefined undefined undefined 930 00:44:07,466 --> 00:44:08,026 undefined undefined undefined undefined 931 00:44:08,026 --> 00:44:08,886 undefined undefined undefined undefined 932 00:44:08,886 --> 00:44:10,086 undefined undefined undefined undefined 933 00:44:10,086 --> 00:44:12,640 undefined undefined undefined undefined 934 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,006 undefined undefined undefined undefined 935 00:44:15,006 --> 00:44:19,070 undefined undefined undefined undefined 936 00:44:19,070 --> 00:44:21,054 undefined undefined undefined undefined 937 00:44:21,054 --> 00:44:22,158 undefined undefined undefined undefined 938 00:44:22,158 --> 00:44:23,854 undefined undefined undefined undefined 939 00:44:23,854 --> 00:44:26,282 undefined undefined undefined undefined 940 00:44:26,282 --> 00:44:27,138 undefined undefined undefined undefined 941 00:44:27,138 --> 00:44:28,546 undefined undefined undefined undefined 942 00:44:28,546 --> 00:44:29,666 undefined undefined undefined undefined 943 00:44:29,666 --> 00:44:30,546 undefined undefined undefined undefined 944 00:44:30,546 --> 00:44:32,402 undefined undefined undefined undefined 945 00:44:32,402 --> 00:44:33,406 undefined undefined undefined undefined 946 00:44:33,406 --> 00:44:34,338 undefined undefined undefined undefined 947 00:44:34,338 --> 00:44:35,206 undefined undefined undefined undefined 948 00:44:35,206 --> 00:44:36,006 undefined undefined undefined undefined 949 00:44:36,006 --> 00:44:36,886 undefined undefined undefined undefined 950 00:44:36,886 --> 00:44:38,706 undefined undefined undefined undefined 951 00:44:38,706 --> 00:44:41,058 undefined undefined undefined undefined 952 00:44:41,058 --> 00:44:43,074 undefined undefined undefined undefined 953 00:44:43,074 --> 00:44:45,046 undefined undefined undefined undefined 954 00:44:45,046 --> 00:44:47,654 undefined undefined undefined undefined 955 00:44:47,654 --> 00:44:49,186 undefined undefined undefined undefined 956 00:44:49,186 --> 00:44:49,974 undefined undefined undefined undefined 957 00:44:49,974 --> 00:44:51,286 undefined undefined undefined undefined 958 00:44:51,286 --> 00:44:52,018 undefined undefined undefined undefined 959 00:44:52,018 --> 00:44:52,598 undefined undefined undefined undefined 960 00:44:52,598 --> 00:44:54,278 undefined undefined undefined undefined 961 00:44:54,278 --> 00:44:55,206 undefined undefined undefined undefined 962 00:44:55,206 --> 00:44:56,346 undefined undefined undefined undefined 963 00:44:56,346 --> 00:44:57,206 undefined undefined undefined undefined 964 00:44:57,206 --> 00:44:57,866 undefined undefined undefined undefined 965 00:44:57,866 --> 00:44:58,806 undefined undefined undefined undefined 966 00:44:58,806 --> 00:45:00,346 undefined undefined undefined undefined 967 00:45:00,346 --> 00:45:02,462 undefined undefined undefined undefined 968 00:45:02,462 --> 00:45:03,614 undefined undefined undefined undefined 969 00:45:03,614 --> 00:45:05,338 undefined undefined undefined undefined 970 00:45:05,338 --> 00:45:07,390 undefined undefined undefined undefined 971 00:45:07,390 --> 00:45:09,470 undefined undefined undefined undefined 972 00:45:09,470 --> 00:45:10,782 undefined undefined undefined undefined 973 00:45:10,782 --> 00:45:11,902 undefined undefined undefined undefined 974 00:45:11,902 --> 00:45:13,746 undefined undefined undefined undefined 975 00:45:13,746 --> 00:45:15,474 undefined undefined undefined undefined 976 00:45:15,474 --> 00:45:16,434 undefined undefined undefined undefined 977 00:45:16,434 --> 00:45:17,474 undefined undefined undefined undefined 978 00:45:17,474 --> 00:45:19,474 undefined undefined undefined undefined 979 00:45:19,474 --> 00:45:20,722 undefined undefined undefined undefined 980 00:45:20,722 --> 00:45:23,266 undefined undefined undefined undefined 981 00:45:23,266 --> 00:45:24,766 undefined undefined undefined undefined 982 00:45:24,766 --> 00:45:25,858 undefined undefined undefined undefined 983 00:45:25,858 --> 00:45:27,878 undefined undefined undefined undefined 984 00:45:27,878 --> 00:45:29,298 undefined undefined undefined undefined 985 00:45:29,298 --> 00:45:32,326 undefined undefined undefined undefined 986 00:45:32,326 --> 00:45:32,886 undefined undefined undefined undefined 987 00:45:32,886 --> 00:45:34,214 undefined undefined undefined undefined 988 00:45:34,214 --> 00:45:34,966 undefined undefined undefined undefined 989 00:45:34,966 --> 00:45:37,174 undefined undefined undefined undefined 990 00:45:37,174 --> 00:45:38,086 undefined undefined undefined undefined 991 00:45:38,086 --> 00:45:39,370 undefined undefined undefined undefined 992 00:45:39,370 --> 00:45:40,826 undefined undefined undefined undefined 993 00:45:40,826 --> 00:45:42,170 undefined undefined undefined undefined 994 00:45:42,170 --> 00:45:44,134 undefined undefined undefined undefined 995 00:45:44,134 --> 00:45:45,850 undefined undefined undefined undefined 996 00:45:45,850 --> 00:45:46,922 undefined undefined undefined undefined 997 00:45:46,922 --> 00:45:48,058 undefined undefined undefined undefined 998 00:45:48,058 --> 00:45:49,622 undefined undefined undefined undefined 999 00:45:49,622 --> 00:45:51,194 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1000 00:45:51,194 --> 00:45:52,202 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1001 00:45:52,202 --> 00:45:53,318 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1002 00:45:53,318 --> 00:45:54,854 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1003 00:45:54,854 --> 00:45:56,766 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1004 00:45:56,766 --> 00:45:57,566 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1005 00:45:57,566 --> 00:45:59,546 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1006 00:45:59,546 --> 00:46:00,526 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1007 00:46:00,526 --> 00:46:01,546 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1008 00:46:01,546 --> 00:46:03,034 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1009 00:46:03,034 --> 00:46:04,322 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1010 00:46:04,322 --> 00:46:04,978 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1011 00:46:04,978 --> 00:46:07,538 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1012 00:46:07,538 --> 00:46:08,866 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1013 00:46:08,866 --> 00:46:10,290 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1014 00:46:10,290 --> 00:46:12,142 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1015 00:46:12,142 --> 00:46:13,346 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1016 00:46:13,346 --> 00:46:14,286 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1017 00:46:14,286 --> 00:46:16,962 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1018 00:46:16,962 --> 00:46:18,486 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1019 00:46:18,486 --> 00:46:19,334 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1020 00:46:19,334 --> 00:46:20,482 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1021 00:46:20,482 --> 00:46:21,702 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1022 00:46:21,702 --> 00:46:23,138 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1023 00:46:23,138 --> 00:46:24,166 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1024 00:46:24,166 --> 00:46:25,442 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1025 00:46:25,442 --> 00:46:27,486 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1026 00:46:27,486 --> 00:46:29,014 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1027 00:46:29,014 --> 00:46:30,106 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1028 00:46:30,106 --> 00:46:32,074 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1029 00:46:32,074 --> 00:46:33,626 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1030 00:46:33,626 --> 00:46:35,114 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1031 00:46:35,114 --> 00:46:36,746 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1032 00:46:36,746 --> 00:46:39,750 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1033 00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:40,538 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1034 00:46:40,538 --> 00:46:42,506 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1035 00:46:42,506 --> 00:46:43,578 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1036 00:46:43,578 --> 00:46:45,134 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1037 00:46:45,134 --> 00:46:46,126 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1038 00:46:46,126 --> 00:46:47,582 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1039 00:46:47,582 --> 00:46:48,798 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1040 00:46:48,798 --> 00:46:49,994 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1041 00:46:49,994 --> 00:46:51,082 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1042 00:46:51,082 --> 00:46:53,534 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1043 00:46:53,534 --> 00:46:54,794 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1044 00:46:54,794 --> 00:46:56,162 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1045 00:46:56,162 --> 00:46:57,534 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1046 00:46:57,534 --> 00:46:58,914 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1047 00:46:58,914 --> 00:46:59,826 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1048 00:46:59,826 --> 00:47:01,198 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1049 00:47:01,198 --> 00:47:02,206 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1050 00:47:02,206 --> 00:47:03,106 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1051 00:47:03,106 --> 00:47:04,866 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1052 00:47:04,866 --> 00:47:05,506 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1053 00:47:05,506 --> 00:47:06,946 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1054 00:47:06,946 --> 00:47:07,918 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1055 00:47:07,918 --> 00:47:09,586 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1056 00:47:09,586 --> 00:47:10,966 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1057 00:47:10,966 --> 00:47:12,374 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1058 00:47:12,374 --> 00:47:14,422 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1059 00:47:14,422 --> 00:47:15,414 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1060 00:47:15,414 --> 00:47:16,294 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1061 00:47:16,294 --> 00:47:16,934 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1062 00:47:16,934 --> 00:47:18,310 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1063 00:47:18,310 --> 00:47:19,466 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1064 00:47:19,466 --> 00:47:21,062 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1065 00:47:21,062 --> 00:47:22,394 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1066 00:47:22,394 --> 00:47:23,562 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1067 00:47:23,562 --> 00:47:25,514 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1068 00:47:25,514 --> 00:47:27,114 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1069 00:47:27,114 --> 00:47:28,700 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1070 00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:31,882 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1071 00:47:31,882 --> 00:47:32,506 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1072 00:47:32,506 --> 00:47:33,274 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1073 00:47:33,274 --> 00:47:34,078 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1074 00:47:34,078 --> 00:47:35,726 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1075 00:47:35,726 --> 00:47:36,606 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1076 00:47:36,606 --> 00:47:37,278 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1077 00:47:37,278 --> 00:47:38,174 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1078 00:47:38,174 --> 00:47:39,118 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1079 00:47:39,118 --> 00:47:39,566 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1080 00:47:39,566 --> 00:47:40,480 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1081 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:45,106 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1082 00:47:45,106 --> 00:47:46,082 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1083 00:47:46,082 --> 00:47:47,938 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1084 00:47:47,938 --> 00:47:48,914 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1085 00:47:48,914 --> 00:47:49,986 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1086 00:47:49,986 --> 00:47:51,026 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1087 00:47:51,026 --> 00:47:52,286 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1088 00:47:52,286 --> 00:47:55,554 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1089 00:47:55,554 --> 00:47:56,354 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1090 00:47:56,354 --> 00:47:57,122 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1091 00:47:57,122 --> 00:47:59,602 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1092 00:47:59,602 --> 00:48:00,646 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1093 00:48:00,646 --> 00:48:01,126 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1094 00:48:01,126 --> 00:48:01,846 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1095 00:48:01,846 --> 00:48:02,566 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1096 00:48:02,566 --> 00:48:03,254 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1097 00:48:03,254 --> 00:48:04,566 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1098 00:48:04,566 --> 00:48:06,086 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1099 00:48:06,086 --> 00:48:07,480 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1100 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,218 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1101 00:48:09,218 --> 00:48:10,762 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1102 00:48:10,762 --> 00:48:12,186 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1103 00:48:12,186 --> 00:48:13,146 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1104 00:48:13,146 --> 00:48:15,466 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1105 00:48:15,466 --> 00:48:16,186 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1106 00:48:16,186 --> 00:48:18,138 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1107 00:48:18,138 --> 00:48:18,986 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1108 00:48:18,986 --> 00:48:21,726 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1109 00:48:21,726 --> 00:48:23,022 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1110 00:48:23,022 --> 00:48:24,542 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1111 00:48:24,542 --> 00:48:26,462 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1112 00:48:26,462 --> 00:48:29,166 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1113 00:48:29,166 --> 00:48:30,830 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1114 00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:35,810 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1115 00:48:35,810 --> 00:48:39,586 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1116 00:48:39,586 --> 00:48:40,286 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1117 00:48:40,286 --> 00:48:41,746 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1118 00:48:41,746 --> 00:48:42,754 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1119 00:48:42,754 --> 00:48:44,514 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1120 00:48:44,514 --> 00:48:45,138 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1121 00:48:45,138 --> 00:48:45,974 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1122 00:48:45,974 --> 00:48:47,666 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1123 00:48:47,666 --> 00:48:49,542 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1124 00:48:49,542 --> 00:48:50,486 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1125 00:48:50,486 --> 00:48:51,542 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1126 00:48:51,542 --> 00:48:53,862 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1127 00:48:53,862 --> 00:48:55,958 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1128 00:48:55,958 --> 00:48:57,414 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1129 00:48:57,414 --> 00:48:59,126 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1130 00:48:59,126 --> 00:48:59,938 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1131 00:48:59,938 --> 00:49:01,194 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1132 00:49:01,194 --> 00:49:02,154 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1133 00:49:02,154 --> 00:49:03,914 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1134 00:49:03,914 --> 00:49:05,306 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1135 00:49:05,306 --> 00:49:06,554 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1136 00:49:06,554 --> 00:49:07,674 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1137 00:49:07,674 --> 00:49:08,922 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1138 00:49:08,922 --> 00:49:11,454 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1139 00:49:11,454 --> 00:49:12,494 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1140 00:49:12,494 --> 00:49:14,080 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1141 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,526 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1142 00:49:16,526 --> 00:49:17,758 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1143 00:49:17,758 --> 00:49:19,594 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1144 00:49:19,594 --> 00:49:20,750 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1145 00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:22,158 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1146 00:49:22,158 --> 00:49:23,426 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1147 00:49:23,426 --> 00:49:24,754 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1148 00:49:24,754 --> 00:49:26,066 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1149 00:49:26,066 --> 00:49:27,058 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1150 00:49:27,058 --> 00:49:27,858 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1151 00:49:27,858 --> 00:49:28,786 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1152 00:49:28,786 --> 00:49:31,780 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1153 00:49:31,780 --> 00:49:35,394 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1154 00:49:35,394 --> 00:49:36,626 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1155 00:49:36,626 --> 00:49:37,326 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1156 00:49:37,326 --> 00:49:38,774 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1157 00:49:38,774 --> 00:49:39,686 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1158 00:49:39,686 --> 00:49:40,786 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1159 00:49:40,786 --> 00:49:41,746 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1160 00:49:41,746 --> 00:49:42,486 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1161 00:49:42,486 --> 00:49:44,242 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1162 00:49:44,242 --> 00:49:46,120 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1163 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,274 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1164 00:49:48,274 --> 00:49:50,566 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1165 00:49:50,566 --> 00:49:52,134 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1166 00:49:52,134 --> 00:49:53,382 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1167 00:49:53,382 --> 00:49:54,426 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1168 00:49:54,426 --> 00:49:55,306 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1169 00:49:55,306 --> 00:49:56,154 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1170 00:49:56,154 --> 00:49:57,034 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1171 00:49:57,034 --> 00:49:59,046 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1172 00:49:59,046 --> 00:50:00,022 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1173 00:50:00,022 --> 00:50:01,518 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1174 00:50:01,518 --> 00:50:04,606 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1175 00:50:04,606 --> 00:50:05,834 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1176 00:50:05,834 --> 00:50:07,120 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1177 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,866 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1178 00:50:09,866 --> 00:50:11,086 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1179 00:50:11,086 --> 00:50:12,206 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1180 00:50:12,206 --> 00:50:14,560 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1181 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,866 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1182 00:50:16,866 --> 00:50:17,618 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1183 00:50:17,618 --> 00:50:18,306 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1184 00:50:18,306 --> 00:50:19,634 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1185 00:50:19,634 --> 00:50:21,042 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1186 00:50:21,042 --> 00:50:22,546 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1187 00:50:22,546 --> 00:50:23,806 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1188 00:50:23,806 --> 00:50:24,786 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1189 00:50:24,786 --> 00:50:25,746 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1190 00:50:25,746 --> 00:50:26,950 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1191 00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:28,726 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1192 00:50:28,726 --> 00:50:32,566 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1193 00:50:32,566 --> 00:50:33,206 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1194 00:50:33,206 --> 00:50:34,082 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1195 00:50:34,082 --> 00:50:35,586 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1196 00:50:35,586 --> 00:50:37,366 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1197 00:50:37,366 --> 00:50:38,358 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1198 00:50:38,358 --> 00:50:39,898 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1199 00:50:39,898 --> 00:50:41,882 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1200 00:50:41,882 --> 00:50:43,674 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1201 00:50:43,674 --> 00:50:45,722 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1202 00:50:45,722 --> 00:50:47,642 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1203 00:50:47,642 --> 00:50:48,746 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1204 00:50:48,746 --> 00:50:49,866 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1205 00:50:49,866 --> 00:50:51,422 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1206 00:50:51,422 --> 00:50:52,654 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1207 00:50:52,654 --> 00:50:54,346 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1208 00:50:54,346 --> 00:50:55,514 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1209 00:50:55,514 --> 00:50:57,214 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1210 00:50:57,214 --> 00:50:58,654 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1211 00:50:58,654 --> 00:50:59,662 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1212 00:50:59,662 --> 00:51:01,754 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1213 00:51:01,754 --> 00:51:03,166 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1214 00:51:03,166 --> 00:51:04,706 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1215 00:51:04,706 --> 00:51:06,290 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1216 00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:08,626 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1217 00:51:08,626 --> 00:51:11,518 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1218 00:51:11,518 --> 00:51:12,866 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1219 00:51:12,866 --> 00:51:14,354 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1220 00:51:14,354 --> 00:51:15,586 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1221 00:51:15,586 --> 00:51:17,174 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1222 00:51:17,174 --> 00:51:18,454 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1223 00:51:18,454 --> 00:51:23,234 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1224 00:51:23,234 --> 00:51:24,486 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1225 00:51:24,486 --> 00:51:25,366 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1226 00:51:25,366 --> 00:51:26,166 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1227 00:51:26,166 --> 00:51:28,140 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1228 00:51:28,140 --> 00:51:29,866 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1229 00:51:29,866 --> 00:51:33,020 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1230 00:51:33,020 --> 00:51:35,318 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1231 00:51:35,318 --> 00:51:36,982 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1232 00:51:36,982 --> 00:51:38,554 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1233 00:51:38,554 --> 00:51:40,074 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1234 00:51:40,074 --> 00:51:41,862 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1235 00:51:41,862 --> 00:51:42,974 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1236 00:51:42,974 --> 00:51:44,366 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1237 00:51:44,366 --> 00:51:45,406 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1238 00:51:45,406 --> 00:51:46,126 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1239 00:51:46,126 --> 00:51:47,566 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1240 00:51:47,566 --> 00:51:49,374 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1241 00:51:49,374 --> 00:51:51,520 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1242 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,494 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1243 00:51:54,494 --> 00:51:55,538 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1244 00:51:55,538 --> 00:51:56,498 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1245 00:51:56,498 --> 00:51:57,570 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1246 00:51:57,570 --> 00:51:59,902 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1247 00:51:59,902 --> 00:52:02,110 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1248 00:52:02,110 --> 00:52:02,946 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1249 00:52:02,946 --> 00:52:03,890 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1250 00:52:03,890 --> 00:52:06,094 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1251 00:52:06,094 --> 00:52:08,034 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1252 00:52:08,034 --> 00:52:08,966 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1253 00:52:08,966 --> 00:52:11,442 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1254 00:52:11,442 --> 00:52:12,406 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1255 00:52:12,406 --> 00:52:13,414 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1256 00:52:13,414 --> 00:52:14,806 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1257 00:52:14,806 --> 00:52:16,070 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1258 00:52:16,070 --> 00:52:17,814 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1259 00:52:17,814 --> 00:52:18,646 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1260 00:52:18,646 --> 00:52:19,266 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1261 00:52:19,266 --> 00:52:19,898 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1262 00:52:19,898 --> 00:52:20,570 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1263 00:52:20,570 --> 00:52:22,010 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1264 00:52:22,010 --> 00:52:22,986 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1265 00:52:22,986 --> 00:52:24,042 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1266 00:52:24,042 --> 00:52:25,482 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1267 00:52:25,482 --> 00:52:27,802 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1268 00:52:27,802 --> 00:52:29,818 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1269 00:52:29,818 --> 00:52:31,274 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1270 00:52:31,274 --> 00:52:32,186 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1271 00:52:32,186 --> 00:52:33,446 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1272 00:52:33,446 --> 00:52:34,334 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1273 00:52:34,334 --> 00:52:35,262 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1274 00:52:35,262 --> 00:52:36,206 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1275 00:52:36,206 --> 00:52:37,118 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1276 00:52:37,118 --> 00:52:38,606 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1277 00:52:38,606 --> 00:52:40,042 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1278 00:52:40,042 --> 00:52:41,886 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1279 00:52:41,886 --> 00:52:42,814 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1280 00:52:42,814 --> 00:52:44,766 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1281 00:52:44,766 --> 00:52:46,462 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1282 00:52:46,462 --> 00:52:47,730 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1283 00:52:47,730 --> 00:52:49,378 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1284 00:52:49,378 --> 00:52:50,098 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1285 00:52:50,098 --> 00:52:50,770 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1286 00:52:50,770 --> 00:52:51,426 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1287 00:52:51,426 --> 00:52:52,306 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1288 00:52:52,306 --> 00:52:53,486 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1289 00:52:53,486 --> 00:52:55,634 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1290 00:52:55,634 --> 00:52:56,734 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1291 00:52:56,734 --> 00:52:59,334 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1292 00:52:59,334 --> 00:52:59,846 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1293 00:52:59,846 --> 00:53:01,106 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1294 00:53:01,106 --> 00:53:01,974 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1295 00:53:01,974 --> 00:53:03,046 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1296 00:53:03,046 --> 00:53:03,734 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1297 00:53:03,734 --> 00:53:05,430 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1298 00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:06,966 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1299 00:53:06,966 --> 00:53:08,422 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1300 00:53:08,422 --> 00:53:09,458 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1301 00:53:09,458 --> 00:53:10,154 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1302 00:53:10,154 --> 00:53:12,054 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1303 00:53:12,054 --> 00:53:14,058 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1304 00:53:14,058 --> 00:53:17,018 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1305 00:53:17,018 --> 00:53:17,898 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1306 00:53:17,898 --> 00:53:18,458 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1307 00:53:18,458 --> 00:53:19,226 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1308 00:53:19,226 --> 00:53:20,922 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1309 00:53:20,922 --> 00:53:23,274 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1310 00:53:23,274 --> 00:53:24,602 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1311 00:53:24,602 --> 00:53:25,902 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1312 00:53:25,902 --> 00:53:26,894 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1313 00:53:26,894 --> 00:53:27,518 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1314 00:53:27,518 --> 00:53:28,606 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1315 00:53:28,606 --> 00:53:29,674 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1316 00:53:29,674 --> 00:53:30,906 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1317 00:53:30,906 --> 00:53:32,750 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1318 00:53:32,750 --> 00:53:35,286 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1319 00:53:35,286 --> 00:53:36,162 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1320 00:53:36,162 --> 00:53:37,890 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1321 00:53:37,890 --> 00:53:39,186 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1322 00:53:39,186 --> 00:53:40,722 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1323 00:53:40,722 --> 00:53:41,682 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1324 00:53:41,682 --> 00:53:42,962 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1325 00:53:42,962 --> 00:53:44,402 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1326 00:53:44,402 --> 00:53:45,394 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1327 00:53:45,394 --> 00:53:46,642 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1328 00:53:46,642 --> 00:53:48,194 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1329 00:53:48,194 --> 00:53:49,174 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1330 00:53:49,174 --> 00:53:49,926 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1331 00:53:49,926 --> 00:53:52,486 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1332 00:53:52,486 --> 00:53:54,726 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1333 00:53:54,726 --> 00:53:55,926 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1334 00:53:55,926 --> 00:53:56,726 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1335 00:53:56,726 --> 00:53:57,574 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1336 00:53:57,574 --> 00:53:58,854 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1337 00:53:58,854 --> 00:53:59,638 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1338 00:53:59,638 --> 00:54:00,354 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1339 00:54:00,354 --> 00:54:00,886 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1340 00:54:00,886 --> 00:54:01,626 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1341 00:54:01,626 --> 00:54:02,506 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1342 00:54:02,506 --> 00:54:03,354 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1343 00:54:03,354 --> 00:54:04,234 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1344 00:54:04,234 --> 00:54:06,266 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1345 00:54:06,266 --> 00:54:08,314 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1346 00:54:08,314 --> 00:54:09,274 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1347 00:54:09,274 --> 00:54:09,962 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1348 00:54:09,962 --> 00:54:11,386 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1349 00:54:11,386 --> 00:54:12,542 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1350 00:54:12,542 --> 00:54:13,834 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1351 00:54:13,834 --> 00:54:15,134 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1352 00:54:15,134 --> 00:54:17,738 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1353 00:54:17,738 --> 00:54:18,922 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1354 00:54:18,922 --> 00:54:20,794 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1355 00:54:20,794 --> 00:54:21,694 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1356 00:54:21,694 --> 00:54:23,262 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1357 00:54:23,262 --> 00:54:23,966 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1358 00:54:23,966 --> 00:54:25,294 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1359 00:54:25,294 --> 00:54:26,914 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1360 00:54:26,914 --> 00:54:29,554 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1361 00:54:29,554 --> 00:54:30,434 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1362 00:54:30,434 --> 00:54:31,794 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1363 00:54:31,794 --> 00:54:32,466 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1364 00:54:32,466 --> 00:54:33,362 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1365 00:54:33,362 --> 00:54:34,226 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1366 00:54:34,226 --> 00:54:35,442 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1367 00:54:35,442 --> 00:54:36,706 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1368 00:54:36,706 --> 00:54:37,426 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1369 00:54:37,426 --> 00:54:38,354 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1370 00:54:38,354 --> 00:54:39,202 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1371 00:54:39,202 --> 00:54:39,894 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1372 00:54:39,894 --> 00:54:40,758 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1373 00:54:40,758 --> 00:54:41,382 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1374 00:54:41,382 --> 00:54:42,966 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1375 00:54:42,966 --> 00:54:44,162 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1376 00:54:44,162 --> 00:54:45,186 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1377 00:54:45,186 --> 00:54:46,614 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1378 00:54:46,614 --> 00:54:47,794 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1379 00:54:47,794 --> 00:54:48,614 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1380 00:54:48,614 --> 00:54:50,134 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1381 00:54:50,134 --> 00:54:50,998 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1382 00:54:50,998 --> 00:54:51,786 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1383 00:54:51,786 --> 00:54:52,746 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1384 00:54:52,746 --> 00:54:53,658 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1385 00:54:53,658 --> 00:54:54,778 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1386 00:54:54,778 --> 00:54:55,866 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1387 00:54:55,866 --> 00:54:57,274 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1388 00:54:57,274 --> 00:55:00,006 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1389 00:55:00,006 --> 00:55:01,002 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1390 00:55:01,002 --> 00:55:02,700 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1391 00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:05,006 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1392 00:55:05,006 --> 00:55:06,126 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1393 00:55:06,126 --> 00:55:07,118 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1394 00:55:07,118 --> 00:55:08,462 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1395 00:55:08,462 --> 00:55:10,014 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1396 00:55:10,014 --> 00:55:11,274 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1397 00:55:11,274 --> 00:55:12,234 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1398 00:55:12,234 --> 00:55:12,958 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1399 00:55:12,958 --> 00:55:13,518 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1400 00:55:13,518 --> 00:55:15,194 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1401 00:55:15,194 --> 00:55:15,918 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1402 00:55:15,918 --> 00:55:16,574 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1403 00:55:16,574 --> 00:55:17,794 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1404 00:55:17,794 --> 00:55:18,626 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1405 00:55:18,626 --> 00:55:19,762 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1406 00:55:19,762 --> 00:55:20,546 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1407 00:55:20,546 --> 00:55:21,666 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1408 00:55:21,666 --> 00:55:22,626 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1409 00:55:22,626 --> 00:55:24,066 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1410 00:55:24,066 --> 00:55:25,378 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1411 00:55:25,378 --> 00:55:27,234 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1412 00:55:27,234 --> 00:55:27,922 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1413 00:55:27,922 --> 00:55:29,650 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1414 00:55:29,650 --> 00:55:31,026 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1415 00:55:31,026 --> 00:55:32,006 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1416 00:55:32,006 --> 00:55:32,646 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1417 00:55:32,646 --> 00:55:33,814 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1418 00:55:33,814 --> 00:55:34,946 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1419 00:55:34,946 --> 00:55:35,606 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1420 00:55:35,606 --> 00:55:37,014 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1421 00:55:37,014 --> 00:55:38,054 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1422 00:55:38,054 --> 00:55:38,758 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1423 00:55:38,758 --> 00:55:39,514 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1424 00:55:39,514 --> 00:55:40,474 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1425 00:55:40,474 --> 00:55:42,954 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1426 00:55:42,954 --> 00:55:43,914 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1427 00:55:43,914 --> 00:55:45,206 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1428 00:55:45,206 --> 00:55:46,106 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1429 00:55:46,106 --> 00:55:47,446 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1430 00:55:47,446 --> 00:55:49,946 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1431 00:55:49,946 --> 00:55:50,794 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1432 00:55:50,794 --> 00:55:51,738 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1433 00:55:51,738 --> 00:55:52,378 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1434 00:55:52,378 --> 00:55:52,906 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1435 00:55:52,906 --> 00:55:54,426 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1436 00:55:54,426 --> 00:55:55,406 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1437 00:55:55,406 --> 00:55:56,574 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1438 00:55:56,574 --> 00:55:57,966 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1439 00:55:57,966 --> 00:55:59,486 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1440 00:55:59,486 --> 00:56:00,618 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1441 00:56:00,618 --> 00:56:01,758 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1442 00:56:01,758 --> 00:56:02,286 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1443 00:56:02,286 --> 00:56:02,798 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1444 00:56:02,798 --> 00:56:03,694 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1445 00:56:03,694 --> 00:56:04,734 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1446 00:56:04,734 --> 00:56:05,418 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1447 00:56:05,418 --> 00:56:07,714 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1448 00:56:07,714 --> 00:56:09,220 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1449 00:56:09,220 --> 00:56:10,722 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1450 00:56:10,722 --> 00:56:11,694 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1451 00:56:11,694 --> 00:56:12,546 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1452 00:56:12,546 --> 00:56:13,854 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1453 00:56:13,854 --> 00:56:14,686 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1454 00:56:14,686 --> 00:56:15,266 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1455 00:56:15,266 --> 00:56:16,146 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1456 00:56:16,146 --> 00:56:17,554 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1457 00:56:17,554 --> 00:56:18,194 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1458 00:56:18,194 --> 00:56:18,786 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1459 00:56:18,786 --> 00:56:20,050 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1460 00:56:20,050 --> 00:56:21,318 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1461 00:56:21,318 --> 00:56:22,054 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1462 00:56:22,054 --> 00:56:22,726 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1463 00:56:22,726 --> 00:56:25,026 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1464 00:56:25,026 --> 00:56:25,638 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1465 00:56:25,638 --> 00:56:26,166 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1466 00:56:26,166 --> 00:56:27,110 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1467 00:56:27,110 --> 00:56:27,846 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1468 00:56:27,846 --> 00:56:29,414 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1469 00:56:29,414 --> 00:56:30,246 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1470 00:56:30,246 --> 00:56:31,126 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1471 00:56:31,126 --> 00:56:31,738 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1472 00:56:31,738 --> 00:56:32,666 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1473 00:56:32,666 --> 00:56:33,834 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1474 00:56:33,834 --> 00:56:34,858 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1475 00:56:34,858 --> 00:56:36,474 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1476 00:56:36,474 --> 00:56:38,826 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1477 00:56:38,826 --> 00:56:39,418 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1478 00:56:39,418 --> 00:56:39,946 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1479 00:56:39,946 --> 00:56:40,666 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1480 00:56:40,666 --> 00:56:41,706 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1481 00:56:41,706 --> 00:56:42,138 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1482 00:56:42,138 --> 00:56:42,634 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1483 00:56:42,634 --> 00:56:43,690 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1484 00:56:43,690 --> 00:56:45,318 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1485 00:56:45,318 --> 00:56:45,806 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1486 00:56:45,806 --> 00:56:46,558 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1487 00:56:46,558 --> 00:56:47,374 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1488 00:56:47,374 --> 00:56:48,746 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1489 00:56:48,746 --> 00:56:49,246 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1490 00:56:49,246 --> 00:56:50,894 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1491 00:56:50,894 --> 00:56:51,822 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1492 00:56:51,822 --> 00:56:54,142 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1493 00:56:54,142 --> 00:56:55,600 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1494 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,266 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1495 00:56:57,266 --> 00:56:58,018 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1496 00:56:58,018 --> 00:56:58,674 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1497 00:56:58,674 --> 00:56:59,586 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1498 00:56:59,586 --> 00:57:01,940 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1499 00:57:01,940 --> 00:57:04,098 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1500 00:57:04,098 --> 00:57:05,938 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1501 00:57:05,938 --> 00:57:06,934 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1502 00:57:06,934 --> 00:57:09,014 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1503 00:57:09,014 --> 00:57:11,446 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1504 00:57:11,446 --> 00:57:12,454 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1505 00:57:12,454 --> 00:57:13,686 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1506 00:57:13,686 --> 00:57:14,626 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1507 00:57:14,626 --> 00:57:16,582 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1508 00:57:16,582 --> 00:57:18,438 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1509 00:57:18,438 --> 00:57:19,194 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1510 00:57:19,194 --> 00:57:20,038 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1511 00:57:20,038 --> 00:57:21,034 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1512 00:57:21,034 --> 00:57:22,666 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1513 00:57:22,666 --> 00:57:23,926 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1514 00:57:23,926 --> 00:57:25,654 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1515 00:57:25,654 --> 00:57:28,058 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1516 00:57:28,058 --> 00:57:30,646 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1517 00:57:30,646 --> 00:57:31,774 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1518 00:57:31,774 --> 00:57:33,226 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1519 00:57:33,226 --> 00:57:34,586 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1520 00:57:34,586 --> 00:57:35,886 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1521 00:57:35,886 --> 00:57:37,626 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1522 00:57:37,626 --> 00:57:39,946 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1523 00:57:39,946 --> 00:57:41,246 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1524 00:57:41,246 --> 00:57:43,886 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1525 00:57:43,886 --> 00:57:44,926 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1526 00:57:44,926 --> 00:57:45,826 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1527 00:57:45,826 --> 00:57:47,074 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1528 00:57:47,074 --> 00:57:48,130 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1529 00:57:48,130 --> 00:57:49,666 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1530 00:57:49,666 --> 00:57:50,338 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1531 00:57:50,338 --> 00:57:51,186 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1532 00:57:51,186 --> 00:57:53,554 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1533 00:57:53,554 --> 00:57:54,546 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1534 00:57:54,546 --> 00:57:55,314 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1535 00:57:55,314 --> 00:57:56,258 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1536 00:57:56,258 --> 00:57:57,090 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1537 00:57:57,090 --> 00:57:59,590 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1538 00:57:59,590 --> 00:58:01,800 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1539 00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,446 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1540 00:58:03,446 --> 00:58:03,986 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1541 00:58:03,986 --> 00:58:04,774 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1542 00:58:04,774 --> 00:58:05,654 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1543 00:58:05,654 --> 00:58:06,934 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1544 00:58:06,934 --> 00:58:07,686 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1545 00:58:07,686 --> 00:58:09,094 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1546 00:58:09,094 --> 00:58:10,746 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1547 00:58:10,746 --> 00:58:11,786 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1548 00:58:11,786 --> 00:58:13,674 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1549 00:58:13,674 --> 00:58:14,842 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1550 00:58:14,842 --> 00:58:15,626 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1551 00:58:15,626 --> 00:58:17,082 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1552 00:58:17,082 --> 00:58:18,394 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1553 00:58:18,394 --> 00:58:20,138 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1554 00:58:20,138 --> 00:58:21,402 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1555 00:58:21,402 --> 00:58:22,138 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1556 00:58:22,138 --> 00:58:24,198 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1557 00:58:24,198 --> 00:58:25,166 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1558 00:58:25,166 --> 00:58:26,026 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1559 00:58:26,026 --> 00:58:27,466 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1560 00:58:27,466 --> 00:58:27,966 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1561 00:58:27,966 --> 00:58:28,494 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1562 00:58:28,494 --> 00:58:30,574 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1563 00:58:30,574 --> 00:58:32,206 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1564 00:58:32,206 --> 00:58:32,926 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1565 00:58:32,926 --> 00:58:34,382 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1566 00:58:34,382 --> 00:58:35,374 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1567 00:58:35,374 --> 00:58:37,694 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1568 00:58:37,694 --> 00:58:39,214 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1569 00:58:39,214 --> 00:58:40,478 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1570 00:58:40,478 --> 00:58:41,594 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1571 00:58:41,594 --> 00:58:42,862 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1572 00:58:42,862 --> 00:58:43,566 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1573 00:58:43,566 --> 00:58:44,430 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1574 00:58:44,430 --> 00:58:46,198 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1575 00:58:46,198 --> 00:58:48,006 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1576 00:58:48,006 --> 00:58:48,950 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1577 00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:50,662 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1578 00:58:50,662 --> 00:58:52,678 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1579 00:58:52,678 --> 00:58:53,782 undefined undefined undefined undefined 1580 00:58:53,782 --> 00:58:54,980 undefined undefined undefined undefined

goodpods top 100 places & travel indie podcasts Goodpods Top 100 Places & Travel Indie Podcasts Listen now to A World of Difference podcast